Martial Arts in WWII
 

Has anyone ever run a Martial Arts Campaign in WWII settings?

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

Well, once I had the Obligatory Japanese Ninja Axis Assassins vs the Allied PC group (which included a French Savate master, an American boxing champ, and, of course, a Chinese Master of Kung Fu....), but it was more of a one-off Cliffhangers games than a WW2 campaign.

......................

Now I know whats been bugging me about yer handle......

*slips into English Nazi Mode*

DANGEROUS.

*goes back to Normal*

Whew. That's a relief.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

In a certain sense WWII was all about martial arts.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

Well it was all martial. Not all of it was artistic.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

The Art of Artillery, with the techniques TOT and so on.

:-)

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

Actually I'd call that a craft. While aplication of technique has a certain aesthetic quality as a by product, even the technique of war in a limited and rather weird sort of way I think art must at a minumum place a high priority on aesthetics. If the primary purpose of a discipline is utillitarian and aesthetics is a by-product then under my definition it is a craft.
Actually that would mean that the martial-arts were originally crafts themselves and I think of them that way in any case. However their stylism and athletic application could say they are now an art at least.
But the normal usage is "martial art". On the other hand that usually refers to personal combat.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

The Fairbairn course could qualify as a "martial art"

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

I guess my attempt at humor is totally failing.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

guess so. I didn't get it. win a few, lose a few.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

I've been toying with he idea of writing a campaign where a group of WW2 soldiers have to find a FairBairn master (who is also a champion boxer and wrestler, or some such claim to fame) to learn to fight in hand to hand in order to answer a challenge from a Japanese officer who has offered to surrender if someone can beat him in a no holes barred unarmed fight.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

I think Kendo was common among Japanese officers. In fact it was part of the naval aviation course(more for general exercise, "weeding out" and perhaps for tradition's sake then for application to being a naval aviator.

There was German "cheek-scratching" fencing. A cinematic cliffhangers-espionage-wwii crossover could easily have a character good at that.

Of course that would probably be more decoration to the character then something he would actually use.

Though there was one time when two German staff officers were quarreling and Hitler suggested they have a duel. So while dueling was unfashionable, it would be easy enough to make an eccentric character that might fight a duel without to much inplausibility. After all you can't say it NEVER happened.

Then there were all those wonderfully gruesome Kukri legends("Leftenant Sahib, you told me to sneak ahead of the Germans. Here is a German head.").

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

Actually the brain-dead "Mensur" "fencing" (still practiced by low-IQ but old family students in germany) is an thing for some "academic" types, not! a typical military thing.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

The Japanese officer learnt a style of sword play now called Toyama Ryu (after Toyama military academy), though from what I understand it had a different name back in the day. The style seems to have changed somewhat from what I can piece together from the manuals I've found (and what I can comprehend not being able to read Japanese), having taken on many aspects of classical sword styles.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

I've recently handed in the First Draft of FAIRBAIRN CLOSE COMBAT SYSTEMS, one of the first style supplements for GURPS MARTIAL ARTS. It covers Defendu, Fairbairn Close Combat Training ("Silent Killing"), and Fairbairn-Sykes Handgun Shooting, the latter two being trained by practically all Allied special ops units and agents. I even have some stuff on Abwehr englischer Gangstermethoden, the German answer to FCCT. In short, if you're interested in martial arts during WWII, this should be a book for you. The playtest will probably start real soon, so watch the announcements (and get a PYRAMID subscription, if you haven't got one yet).

Cheers

HANS

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

That breaks one of my preconceptions then! I had always pictured it as a Prussian aristo-thing, essential for the cultured upper-class officer (of the type apparently despised by Hitler but still prevalent in the SS).

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

This type of fencing is a rather typical pasttime for members of student fraternities. Most members are either M.D.´s or lawyers. Also, in GURPS terms, it is probably a certain type of Fencing Art, not a combat skill. By the way, the were dissolved in 1935.

There are wikipedia articles on this phenomenon in english : hereand here

As of today, these student Burschenschaften are known for heavy drinking, forming low scale corruption networks and singing right-wing if not extremist folk songs.

They are no useful addition for a Martial Arts campaign, unless used as a comic relief (heavy accented, drunken field doctor, fumbling with his sword).

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

Uhmm ... Then the more correct name for GURPS Martial Arts would be ... GURPS War Crafts ... ;-)

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

In GURPS terms, Mensur-fencing is Broadsword Sport, I believe. At least according to MA.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

Even in the 1930s that "fencing" where two guys wearing so much armor that they could barely more wielding a saber (not a broadsword) using only the articulation shoulder and below in a very static fashion. The did 4-8 slashes - pause - 4-8 slashed - pause etc.

Broadsword Sport is IMHO what some Reenactors / SCA guys do today.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

Broadsword Sport is both, I believe. One is just Broadsword Sport, with a saber that is heavy enough to use Broadsword skill (pretty much any real saber) and the other is often Broadsword Sport, Shield Sport, Wrestling, Brawling and maybe some team Tactics.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

Well, IMHO anything you can do mad drunk as well as totally sober does not count as a sport. The actual "fencing moves" are learned in ten minutes, the rest is rote(sp)learning of the behaviour during it (not: the rules)

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

Yes, it is. The fact that Mensur fencing uses lots of protection but sharp swords doesn't change the fact that it's Broadsword Sport just as much as SCA swordfighting with safety weapons and gear is.

If you truly believe that Mensurschlager is simply drunken imbeciles with a staggeringly low IQ whacking each other with no skill whatsoever, I'd advise having them in your games with NO skill, and simply default Broadsword Sport to DX-5 and take lots of Telegraphic Attacks using All-Out Attack (Determined). That's DX-5, +4 (AOA), +4 (TA), -5 Face = -2, for a net 8. They can swing for a while and eventually someone will roll an 8 and cut his opponent and win.

But it's still Broadsword Sport.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

It's also worth noting that sport fencing was popular in Germany in the 30s. Judo was practiced as well. Both would make good sports for your Nazi Officer Bad Guy in a WWII game.

Re: Martial Arts in WWII
 

That has little to do with believes but a lot with what reality. The only time the average Burschi get's some real sport is when he is running away from a bunch of Autonome with normal students standing by and cheering for the latter.

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As for real fencing, that was and is a well known sport in germany. Chances are good any old guard officers still knew how to do it and those from "old military" families have learned it.

And the Judo practiced before WWII was often JuJitsu the more agressiv form, also introduced to the police at some time shortly before or after WWII.