Re: [MA Style] Cat-Fu
 

Clearly, the Felinoid race in BASIC SET was so utterly inspirational that I forget them in my excitement.

And joking aside, no, we didn't interview non-humans. But animals that have been grabbed aren't free from physical laws. My scratchiest cats did more damage to me when they hung on to me with teeth and rended with claws, and less when I held them and tried to stop them - for one example. A valid reaction for a human - or another animal - grappled by an animal or a human is to grab it back (with hands or teeth) and interfere with it. It just didn't seem in line with our reality checking and research that you can get so good with it that it's as easy to fight grappled as not being grappled.

The comparison with Ground Fighting is a bit weak, actually, because Ground Fighting reduces your penalty to attack (potentially eliminating it) and reduces your defensive penalty, but doesn't wholly eliminate the downsides of being on the ground (laying face up, laying face down). A "Fighting While Grappled" technique could easily buy off the entire penalty, so whether you've got a bear biting your arm or a lucha libre wrestler bear hugging you or a knife fighter twisting up your shirt in his live hand while he stabs you, you'd be just as fine as if none of them layed a hand on you. That's...hard to justify, at least. If you make it yourself, I'd apply a cap...default to Skill-4, max Skill-2, Hard, is probably a good way to go - just off the top of my head.

Re: [MA Style] Cat-Fu
 

Lack of Cat-fu and skiffulness at grappling does not follow.

Your example of simply grabbing them and pulling them away asummes the user of cat-fu is the same size as the house cat.

The feliod is SM+0, and as BASIC say "Cat people often appear in science fiction, fantasy, and horror setting" make to a prefect exple on how to use Style to give non-humans more flavor.

or are you say it is poitness or ever unballinging for by to Buy and uses in my campain becuse it only befits humans?

Re: [MA Style] Cat-Fu
 

I don't understand what you mean here at all.

There are two different things going on here - we didn't include Cat Fu for a few reasons, and we didn't include a technique for fighting while grappled for another bunch of reasons.

No, it assumes nothing of the sort, I'm talking about two different things.

I don't follow. I'm saying that as a technique, just because being grappled has a penalty doesn't mean you should allow it to be bought off. I'm saying that it doesn't seem especially realistic based on research and reality checking by me and others, and yes, we did consider animals when we did that research and reality checking. We didn't exempt felinoid humanoids on the grounds that a) there aren't any, furry conventions not withstanding, and b) simply putting fur and claws on a human-shaped fighter doesn't mean they should be able to buy a technique for fighting while grappled if we didn't think it was realistic or balanced for anyone to buy. To put it another way, how was I supposed to reality check that, and what justifies cat-men getting a special technique to fight while grappled when, say, MMA fighters who train to punch and knee and choke and lock while grappling and being grappled in turn don't get one - and our research and reality checking said that it was pretty fair not to allow it?

I'm very specifically talking about two different things here:

1) Why we didn't include Cat Fu.

2) Why techniques for buying down penalties for being grappled are probably not a good idea and why we didn't include on in GURPS Martial arts. And for a sub-heading to this, why "it has a penalty" doesn't automatically mean a technique is a valid and useful and balanced option for it. Some things just shouldn't be messed with because doing so gives odd results at best and defies reality at worst. I offered a couple ways to avoid this with a technique for fighting while grappled if you disagree with us.

Re: [MA Style] Cat-Fu
 

I was thinking they were confusing penalties for being grappled with penalties for grappling, but AFAIK there are no penalties for grappling, just for being grappled, so "Cat People" grappling something wouldn't be penalized anyway.

Not to mention that the to hit penalties are already halved in basic for grappling, so I don't know what they're trying to model.

Re: [MA Style] Cat-Fu
 

Okay, I got one definition of a Technique from Kromm, and now, after what you have said, I'm interested in yours. What can and what cannot become a Technique?

Re: [MA Style] Cat-Fu
 

My definition was just Peter's rephrased. The important element, which I repeated in various words, was this:
In this case, you have the first part but not the second. Reality checking shows that there's no specific training that makes you as good at fighting when restrained as when free. It doesn't exist. Being restrained is inherently bad in a fight. It's a result of screwing up and being hit with an attack, except that where a striking attack costs you HP, a grappling one costs you effective DX. But you can't buy off the DX penalty any more than you can learn Fighting While Wounded to avoid shock penalties when injured.

Ground Fighting is different because it doesn't eliminate the essential flaw of being on the ground (you're less mobile, limited in what you can reach and do, and a target for a dogpile), it just makes use of a firm foundation (the back) and a four-limbed guard position to compensate for lack of reach and mobility. When you're grappled, you have fewer body parts free, not more, and your foundation is shaky, not firm, because it's at your assailant's mercy. And there's no good way to justify that being as easy a position to fight from as not being grappled.

A cat's main benefit is that it has Claws and a good DX, so that when you restrain its upper body, it can score a kick on you and it bleeds. If you want to make a martial art for cats, note that Claws work with Karate (p. 57: "martial artists who gain Claws or Strikers as part of their training – or who belong to races with natural Claws or Strikers – may wield them with Karate to further enhance damage"). Give the cat-fu expert Karate, and be sure to include the Kicking technique, and probably Ground Fighting. Good perks include Biting Mastery (adds Karate bonuses to bites), Clinch (for grappling with a striking skill), Ground Guard (for using all fours when grappling), and Neck Control (for a bonus to hit with, say, that kick after grabbing). For realistic cats rather than anime people, I'd toss in Sumo Wrestling for the intial slam and ensuing hugging and grappling that cats like to use when tussling.

Re: [MA Style] Cat-Fu
 

In retrospect, that would have been a great thing to talk about in the Designer's Notes. Much of what I wrote was explaining why we decided on certain splits in skills or chose the arts we did or modeled them the way we did. What makes a good technique and what makes a bad one would have been a useful paragraph.

Oh well, have to save that somewhere and stick it in Designer's Notes II: The Revenge or something.

Re: [MA Style] Cat-Fu
 

Thx, that is very helpful... However, I cannot find the Clinch Perk...

Re: [MA Style] Cat-Fu
 

See Skill Adaptation (p. 51).

Re: [MA Style] Cat-Fu
 

It's stuff like this I was expecting to find in the tread, thank you