Steve Jackson Games Forums - Is a 5th Edition coming soon? [Answer: NO, it isn't!]

Steve Jackson Games Forums (https://forums.sjgames.com/index.php)

- SJ Games Discussion (https://forums.sjgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)

- - Is a 5th Edition coming soon? [Answer: NO, it isn't!] (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=29575)

Re: Is a 5th Edition coming soon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasCole (Post 1347461)

Honestly, I think it was both.

It really started with three or four lines of very, very simple equations, that worked, were realistic, etc.

But if you wanted to get away from basic scaling of self-bows by ST, it started to break down. Then my sanity started to break down, and I graciously shared that SAN loss with Steven.

That being said, were it not for Pyramid's ability to bundle the included spreadsheet with the article, I suspect the project woudl have been wound down a bit.

He took a chance on what was basically darn near a physics paper (and the author of The Defense Academy Warbow Trials thought it "neat," which says something. About someone.) with a near-mandatory spreadsheet.

but it's DELIBERATELY out there, which he made abundantly clear. As he said.

I totally missed the spreadsheet. I do not know how. 8O

That spreadsheet is really cool. I am not knowledgeable on Excel, can I just add new materials on the “Materials List Pounds” and “Arrow Tables” tabs? Will Excel auto adjust the calculations to include the new rows?

Edit: I inserted a row in the middle of the tables and needed to copy over a couple formulas from other cells but it worked.

I will need to add magical materials in now. XD

Re: Is a 5th Edition coming soon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 1347463)

Given that people would point to an optional rule in an the appendix of Vehicles 2e (which itself is a pretty niche book) and claim that their inability to take cube roots, even with a scientific calculator, makes GURPS unplayable, I think there's hope for A Deadly Spring also making people not play in your game. :)

Can't you raise to the 1/3th power on a scientific calculator?

Re: Is a 5th Edition coming soon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen (Post 1348237)

Can't you raise to the 1/3th power on a scientific calculator?

I can, but I never claimed that double optional rule (which I don't think I ever actually used; at least not on any vehicle that actually saw play) makes GURPS unplayable.

Re: Is a 5th Edition coming soon?

People upset by cube roots are going to be even more freaked out by raising to fractional powers.

Re: Is a 5th Edition coming soon?

I suspect that many of the complaints about math in GURPS are the in game math. The wounding modifier of 1.5 for pi+ and cut needing to be calculated for each attack that penetrates and armor dividers greater that 2 that need to be done to see how much damages penetrates are probable some of the main issues. Ranged attacks require a table lookup for distance and speed of target then you need to add accuracy, bracing, and turns of aiming. This after needing to calculate how many turns you need to ready and aim.

These things do not bother me as I feel it adds to the combat at a tactical sense. The math during the character development is insignificant in my mind as that is out of game play. It helps that I use the Character Assistant and don’t need to do much work at all other than pick stuff. Now picking stuff is a real chore as there is so much to pick from. :)

Re: Is a 5th Edition coming soon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorgSmith (Post 1348354)

Maybe, but I have trouble believing most people consider table look-ups and multiplying by 1.5 to be hard math. Most of the complaints I've heard that start out about GURPS being too math heavy usually go out of their way to mention Vehicles at some point, which tells me that the person is literally looking for an excuse to dislike GURPS. Unfortunately, when a meme like that exists there will be people who have never opened a GURPS book that will happily believe it and/or repeat it.

Re: Is a 5th Edition coming soon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericbsmith (Post 1348483)

Most of the complaints I've heard that start out about GURPS being too math heavy usually go out of their way to mention Vehicles at some point, which tells me that the person is literally looking for an excuse to dislike GURPS.

And usually cube roots come up, so it's not just Vehicles, it's a double double optional rule in Vehicles. Haters got to hate, as they say.

Re: Is a 5th Edition coming soon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericbsmith (Post 1348483)

Maybe, but I have trouble believing most people consider table look-ups and multiplying by 1.5 to be hard math. Most of the complaints I've heard that start out about GURPS being too math heavy usually go out of their way to mention Vehicles at some point, which tells me that the person is literally looking for an excuse to dislike GURPS. Unfortunately, when a meme like that exists there will be people who have never opened a GURPS book that will happily believe it and/or repeat it.

The bolding of text above by me. I think hard math is not the issue. I think most the math done at game time is trivial. The math I pointed out above is simple. The problem (one I do not think needs solving) is some people hate any math beyond adding two numbers or subtracting two numbers.

I have checked out quite a few games and they all have tables and simple arithmetic. Numbers work best at defining limits. The main purpose of a character in any game is to define limits to what the player can do. All games have math in them. Well I have not checked out any of those diceless games. Personally, I do not have an issue with the math in the game.

I am practicing combats during lunch in my office with a couple guys at work. One guy is not in an engineering job so math is not used a lot. I am sure he has to work with numbers as his job uses computers. He has commented about the math. Now I think this is partially my fault as I want to get a good feel for the RAW and am spending time getting in all the modifiers. Once I get more used to them I will be able to group them quicker and better to reduce some of the math exposed to the players.

Basically I think the GM has a major impact on the perception of the game. I think the GM needs to know the comfort level of each player to math and plan accordingly.

Re: Is a 5th Edition coming soon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorgSmith (Post 1348751)

I've heard "GURPS sucks cause you have to do cube roots to play it." I've never heard "GURPS sucks because you have to halve and double stuff to play it." You have to halve and double stuff in almost every popular RPG, you definitely have to do it in D&D.

Re: Is a 5th Edition coming soon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 1348760)

Heck, it was original D&D that taught me how to calculate 10 percent of something, when I was in grade school.