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-   -   Quick Question - rules for heavy bows (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=200998)

ravenfish 11-19-2024 06:08 PM

Re: Quick Question - rules for heavy bows
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook (Post 2543045)
OOOOOH! So you treat the ST assigned to the bow as if it were the ST score for a character to determine base damage?

Exactly. (And likewise for the bow's range.)

Farmer 11-19-2024 07:05 PM

Re: Quick Question - rules for heavy bows
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook (Post 2543045)
OOOOOH! So you treat the ST assigned to the bow as if it were the ST score for a character to determine base damage?

For crossbows yes, all the time, since you lock them at full draw. For other bows, only if you have sufficient ST to draw it up to that (extra effort, time, etc. can compensate as normal).

The various perks and such allow you to exceed your regular ST to match the bow without extra effort and time and such.

Varyon 11-19-2024 09:21 PM

Re: Quick Question - rules for heavy bows
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Farmer (Post 2543051)
For crossbows yes, all the time, since you lock them at full draw. For other bows, only if you have sufficient ST to draw it up to that (extra effort, time, etc. can compensate as normal).

The various perks and such allow you to exceed your regular ST to match the bow without extra effort and time and such.

For other bows, lacking sufficient ST (after accounting for traits like Arm ST and Strongbow and options like Extra Effort) means you simply can't use them. Yeah, realistically you'll be able to pull the string part of the way back, but from my understanding, unless the bow is specifically designed to have multiple points of release, the result is probably going to be worse than if you just grabbed the arrow and chucked it like an oversized dart.

Farmer 11-20-2024 12:41 AM

Re: Quick Question - rules for heavy bows
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Varyon (Post 2543056)
For other bows, lacking sufficient ST (after accounting for traits like Arm ST and Strongbow and options like Extra Effort) means you simply can't use them. Yeah, realistically you'll be able to pull the string part of the way back, but from my understanding, unless the bow is specifically designed to have multiple points of release, the result is probably going to be worse than if you just grabbed the arrow and chucked it like an oversized dart.

Yes, if after all the things that might explicitly or gm-licitly allow you to "get" to the correct ST, you fall short, then you don't get to fire the bow.

Varyon 11-20-2024 04:14 AM

Re: Quick Question - rules for heavy bows
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Farmer (Post 2543061)
Yes, if after all the things that might explicitly or gm-licitly allow you to "get" to the correct ST, you fall short, then you don't get to fire the bow.

The way you wrote the previous post made me think you were suggesting a regular bow could function using the user's ST if that were lower than the bow's, but perhaps I just misread it.

Rupert 11-21-2024 05:34 AM

Re: Quick Question - rules for heavy bows
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Varyon (Post 2543065)
The way you wrote the previous post made me think you were suggesting a regular bow could function using the user's ST if that were lower than the bow's, but perhaps I just misread it.

I, perhaps over-generously, would allow a character to use a bow that's too strong for them. They'd only get to use it at their ST, and they'd take a -1 to hit per point of ST they were lacking, but they could use it. I probably wouldn't let them aim, either. So it's something a character might do in desperation, but hardly something they'd want to do over getting a bow of properly matched ST.

Flowergarden 11-21-2024 08:37 AM

Re: Quick Question - rules for heavy bows
 
If you really want to shoot heavier bows...
Maybe a technique?

Some cool name
Hard
Defaults Bow-2, cannot exceed prerequisite skill

You can use bows with ST more than user ST by 2. Including additional damage from the bow
On the first turn you start to draw with a ready maneuver as normal
On the second turn you continue with another ready maneuver, but uncomfortable posture give you -2 on dodge and you can't retreat, block, parry or use acrobatics.
On third turn you can shoot.
You get a cumulative -1 to attack every turn of holding bow drawn

Or something like that.
Yes, I know, it's reskined springing attack. And I could mess up with numbers. But this looks as clunky as realistic shooting of heavy bows for me

Varyon 11-21-2024 09:38 AM

Re: Quick Question - rules for heavy bows
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert (Post 2543175)
I, perhaps over-generously, would allow a character to use a bow that's too strong for them. They'd only get to use it at their ST, and they'd take a -1 to hit per point of ST they were lacking, but they could use it. I probably wouldn't let them aim, either. So it's something a character might do in desperation, but hardly something they'd want to do over getting a bow of properly matched ST.

I could get behind that. The "outright cannot use if ST is too low" rule arguably falls under the Harsh Realism umbrella, while a rule like yours should be fine for any moderately-cinematic campaign.

Anthony 11-21-2024 01:36 PM

Re: Quick Question - rules for heavy bows
 
Realistically, there's a pretty significant distance between "can use effectively" and "can use at all", particularly for ancient bows (it might not be true for compound bows), because using a bow effectively requires that you can draw the bow and hold it like that, with minimal trembling, while aiming, which requires significantly more strength than is required to draw it at all.

DanHoward 11-22-2024 01:27 AM

Re: Quick Question - rules for heavy bows
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert (Post 2543175)
I, perhaps over-generously, would allow a character to use a bow that's too strong for them. They'd only get to use it at their ST, and they'd take a -1 to hit per point of ST they were lacking, but they could use it. I probably wouldn't let them aim, either. So it's something a character might do in desperation, but hardly something they'd want to do over getting a bow of properly matched ST.

I would use the Extra Effort rules and hit them with Fatigue.


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