[PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

If I might have more questions later, can I not name this thread for a specific ability I have in mind RN, yes?

I have an idea of an extra-sensory PK-based sense ability. Can somebody, pls, help me build it? Feel free to just give pointers, focus on any of of variants/alternatives below you think you reasonably understand how to build with existing BS, PP or Powers resources, but I am more interested in basic version as I outline below.

I ask here, because cursory search didn't help. Enhanced Senses doesn't seem to have that power.

It's a ranged touch with all the benefits of sight and touch, which gives some strengths of both, sort of "3D Spatial Sense" on steroids. It gives you distance and precise position of everything to you and each other and better, than sight/hearing combo.

Instead of telling you colours, it provides you information of shape, texture, whether it is soft or hard, smooth or rough. Unlike with vision, you can see behind objects and as long as you you can connect a unbroken curve between you and the object, you can "feel" behind the corners, every nook and cranny, between floor boards, from every direction, you cannot be confused by optical illusions, you may know is somebody carries a gun under a jacket or a knife behind their back, but it can't go through less than certain width and definitely not through hermetically sealed containers.

Depending on how strong it is, this sense can feel objects it touches from both sides, or it can be "shallow".
Errr.. this ability overall and this variant in particular is potentially very physically invasive, but this aspect will be largely ignored for the sake of propriety in favour of "I know where you are and what is needed to know".

It can be non-detectable or cause tiny pinpricks and trigger pressure sensors, etc.

Arguably, it could be detected by TK Grab or other more appropriate highly sensitive ability.

The variant I've seen in fiction is a omnidirectional field (aura?) that senses every point simultaneously. So you can't fail to notice anything within (you might not have react in time or interpret it correctly, though).

Variants might include a cone like the Awareness ability or a projected zone of PK perception, like Clairaudience, a 360⁰ volumetric sphere. rather than total area coverage. It might have unlimited area coverage or a sort of "curving lidar" with a max distance limitation (so former would beat a maze and go beyond, while latter would cover only up to max distance). In my opinion it is not the same as scanning sense's deep scan because this technique goes through objects, but it's not the same as looking at them from behind.

Depending on whether it's good at detecting atmosphere changes it can also be stronger or weaker, but it can very useful in finding hidden rooms if there is gap or find a hidden compartment if you feel that the the distance between the outside of wall and inside wall surface is unusually thick.

If this ability does have a deep scan version it is gonna be especially ludicrous.

TL;DR: At the end of the day it's like having thousands or even millions of invisible intangible fingers all over the place and being aware of each and their relation to each other (potentially simultaneously).

It's probably a combo of multiple different advantages, like many abilities in Psionic Powers. "Protected Sense" probably has to be included by default.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

Another less common variant of this kind of sense is more like perceiving every photon in a certain radius around you, their properties and direction. You can see through walls and you are considered looking from every direction simultaneously, it is a bit easier with certain lighting conditions (bright lights won't block or counter weaker lights, but you suffer similar limitations to sight where it comes to total darkness or near that. So in a dark room you will be blind, but if your sphere extends beyond it you'll see lit places outside and blackout zone you're in.

But I guess it can accidentally cause problems with light speed>information speed, as you'd supposedly aware of all photons simultaneously and teleport that info into your brain, not sure how to avoid that, yet.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

Came to the conclusion that in a contemporary setting Ergokinesis perks bought together (with some extras, if you wish) can work together as an interesting, very cheap, "weak psi" power suite in its own right.

Technopath (Ergokinesis perks on PP35)
6 points
Statistics: EVP, Interface, Intuitive Glance (Electronics; esp perk, p.42), Power Source, Radio Receiver (P:ES26), Universal Remote

You can use a smartphone just by holding it (same for a server without a terminal or hardware, that has imput device hopelessly broken), talk on the phone without making any sounds, would have easier time diagnosing electronics breakdowns, can attune to radios, and control any TVs you can find, with but a glance. Sweet.

Assuming your GM would give all of these to you.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

It sounds like an ability I've been thinking of for various characters, called PK Awareness:
(copied from a character in another thread) PK Awareness 10 (Increased Range 50x, +50%; Extended Arc, 360°, +125%; Granted by familiar, -40%; Nuisance Effect, sensed by touch at Per-7, -5%; Psychokinesis, -10%; Requires Per Roll, -5%) [43]

PK Awareness is a Scanning Sense that's basically Extra-Sensory Awareness using psychokinetic feedback (which is to say, a very low psychokinetic pressure is cast over a wide area around him, and his mind builds a three-dimensional map of areas of resistance). Beings with a sense of touch in the area of effect can perceive a slight pressure (Per-7), and may be able to realize what's going on from that, or even locate him.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

Thank you!

Do you have a suggestion on how to make scanning sense go behind the corners touch/see things from behind? Because I'm not sure that "Penetrating" enhancement does exactly what I want.

P.S. Are you Prince Charon from SB? :)

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

You could also take a look at the Area Perception enhancement (Powers: Totems and Nature Spirits), which lets you perceive everything within an area simultaneously, amongst other benefits. This would probably cover the "seeing around things" element.

You could potentially use Clairsentience with Area Perception, or build a Detect that does the job. Perhaps something like:

Detect Physical Objects (Accessibility, needs line of effect, -10%; Accessibility, Only tactile properties, -50%; Analyzing, +100%; Area Perception, +300%; Precise, +100%; Substantial only, -10%) [171].

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

Why does Nuisance Effect with -7 penalty roll only costs -5%?

Thank you, very helpful!

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

If I'm reading that as intended, I think that is "Beings with a sense of touch in the area of effect can perceive a slight pressure (Per-7), and may be able to realize what's going on from that, or even locate him."

So the Nuisance Effect is that your sensory power can occasionally be detected. It's not a penalty to your rolls, it's the penalty others have to notice your power.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

Exactly this. I'm not sure how that was unclear to Thökk, so I don't know how to correct it.

Yes, I also go by Prince Charon on other platforms, including SB.com.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

Sorry, I remembered it the moment you pointed it out. I read the whole thing once and on subsequent readings I didn't read the clarification, only the mechanics part and got confused who it applies to.

I don't sleep very well. :(

You've been very helpful. Again, thanks.

P.S.

BTW, while we're here, can I ask something? How do you understand "Penetrating, +50%" enhancement? Does it only allow to treat objects as transparent for the purpose of sensing/seeing behind them (or inside if the object has a hollow space, like container) (you can still sense/see the object) or it allows to sense/see through object and INTO the object, allowing to focus on any depth into an object to see concentrations of higher density, colours, other objects embedded inside, etc.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

The modifier used in Enhanced Senses says "These penetrate solid matter to a depth of 1’, revealing internal structure and defects." so I'd definitely say it lets you see internal variation.

Penetrating Vision is more ambiguous as it specifically talks about seeing through matter and seeing it only as an outline. However, I'd still allow you to see the internals. It's not "this substance is invisible to you", which would bring disadvantages. I can't think of any particular examples in fiction that have someone scrutinising the internal structure of an object, though.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

What is the base Advantage that's built on?

I'd suggest "Nuissance Effect: Noticeable (by sense of touch at Per-7)"

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

Scanning Sense, as it says in the quote.

Might use that if I use something like this again.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

Scrutinizing the internal structure of person with powers, though, does happen. There was an animated Justice League movie where Superman confirmed that a character who were supposed to stay in prison were in fact still in prison and that his another character's organs were reversed from left to right. He did across insane distance, but that's beside the point.

I can imagine knowing about internal structure of objects can be useful in certain professions and tasks, like material science, geology, metallurgy, healthcare, demolitions... Everything you can't pull apart easily and that requires advanced sensors to see through.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

Telekinesis is described along the lines of "Your TK may then perform one standard maneuver as if were a disembodied pair of hands at some point within your range"

Can I add advantages to these telekinetic hands instead of the physical ones? Extra Limbs, Extra attacks, High Manual Dexterity, Striking ST, Lift ST? Limitations, like No manipulators, no fine manipulators? What about "High manual dexterity" Technique to get more out of basic bonus on Lockpicking, Surgery, etc.?

Also I realized, that you can use melee skills to attack with TK Grab and thus techniques as well. Does that mean that maneuvers and techniques, that usually are dangerous to perform due to risk of injury are risk free with telekinesis?

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

One subfield of psionics I felt was missing from Psionic Powers is psionic mind augmentation, intelligence augmentation, etc. I.e. using psionics to do things your organic brain alone can't do. It is in many ways a metapower, because instead of being based on "mind over matter" it is "psionics over mind" which is arguably recursive and might not fit a tone of every game.

The idea of that subset of powers came from observing different psionic powers systems in the fiction, but finding it strangely absent as a named field and specialty.

Another problem is that one advantage that I thought could fit this power suite (Compartmentilized Mind), the book Psionic Powers suggests to not give the -10% Psi modifier, nor have it rolled, which seems like a poor fit with the rest of the specialties. I haven't come up with good solutions to it, but if I'll manage, I'll try to write them down and share for discussion.

The other advantages I thought go well with Psionic (Mentalism? Mental Augmentation):
Enhanced Time Sense
Eidetic and Photographic Memory
Absolute Timing
Lightning calculator
Less Sleep
Modular Abilities (Mind Surgery, Self; Virtual skills)
Treating your mind palace as having access to Accessory (Computer) with Complexity and being able to run simple and complex programs and simulations.
Vizualization
Sensory advantages that can be explained as advanced sensory processing.

Part of the inspiration for that came from thinking about D&D 3.5 psionics and how a low TL society with psionics could potentially emulate higher TLs. Cave men with the internet, servers, data repositories, youtube, dream universities...
Part of it came from bizarre sources, like BBC Sherlock show, because for all its flaws, it was "Mind wizard: the television show" which was hilarious.

P.S. Are there timed thread locks or rules against thread necromancy?

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

I vaguely think I've seen this in fiction, blanking on the source, with the Power being Telepathy. I feel like Biokinesis would work better, though. Either way, I think that even if its able to boost IQ and Per, it shouldn't be able to do Will. Likewise, it might only be able to boost them for non-psionic applications, to avoid getting into a feedback loop.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

That seems reasonable. In any case my focus was never on pure stat increase, although somw of it seems helpful. Enhanced Time Sense and Compartmentalized Mind don't increase your IQ and yet they massively increase your mental capabilities. In any case, psionic mental enhancement can follow 30% increase limitation and introduce strain side effects if you push beyond the limit. And yeah, Extra Effort already covers Psionic Power enhacement, so...

What I don't understand is how to make psionic abilities that don't have psi -10% limitation and the activation roll would basically make them useless or at least annoying.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

What does "Accessibility, needs line of effect, -10%" mean here for Detect? Does it have to be line? Could it be a curve?

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

So "line of effect" just means there is an unbroken route between you and the thing you want to detect. It could be a straight line, a curve, or an extremely elaborate path through a maze of lasers.

For example:
- you're standing next to it
- you're looking at it across an empty room
- you're in your bedroom with the window open, and it's in another room with an open window 1000 miles away
- technically, you could be standing in a field while the thing you want to detect is lying on the ground on Pluto

However, you can't detect things inside a hermetically-sealed container (as per your original post).

The value of the limitation would depend on how small a gap still gives line of effect for this specific power. If a gap has to be at least 5cm wide, it's a bigger limitation. If any gap wide enough to slide a sheet of paper into is enough, it's a small limitation. Your description suggests the latter.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

This feels like a Scanning Sense to me. Almost the entire description matches the opening sentence of that advantage.

I'd call it a type of Para-Radar that you can modify as needed (no penetration even of thin stuff since it only does surface touch, detectable, shorter range?).

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

Well, yes, I got that it is similar to Scanning Sense, but the description of Para-radar didn't make sense to me and I didn't know what limitations and enhancement could describe this ability precicely. Luckily, others had chimed in with a lot of advice.

Thanks, that answered my question more or less completely.

It it possible to give "Detect"-specific modifiers to Scanning sense instead?

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

What doesn't make sense about it? It functions like image radar but uses some pseudo-science mechanism to justify working everywhere and being nearly undetectable.

Yes, but none of the ones he mentioned really apply. It already allows you to sense and know the shape of small objects. It does shape detection with a Sense roll already so Analyzing wouldn't apply. It has an "area" 120-degree arc out to (a base) 200 yards, so you don't need area either.

If you want to cut the range to, say 40 yards, that's Reduced Range 2 for -20% or Reduced Range 3 -30% for a 20 yard range. Imaging Radar can normally "see" through thin fabric. I'd suggest it's -10% or -20% if you just detect the surfaces. If you want a wider arc, take Extended Arc for +75% or +125% - both of which seem really high for what they give you. If your ability can be detected fairly easily (normally para-rader is nearly impossible to detect) that's probably a -10% nuisance. Another advantage of para-radar is the ability to work anywhere including underwater. If you can only use this ability in a normal atmosphere, that's likely another -20%.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

Can Para-radar bend, look behind the corners and see from any point and angle simultaneously within its radius?

If yes, then Para-radar does what I want and I didn't need to check any further.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

It should do around corners (out to its range limit). Increasing the angle from 120-degree coverage to 360-degree coverage was an enhancement I mentioned above.

Super Touch Sense (Para-Radar) [70]
- 360-degree coverage +125%
- 40 yard range -20%
- Can be felt -10%
- Doesn't work underwater -20%

It's expensive, but it makes you basically aware of everything going on within 40 yards that's not under some form of physical barrier.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

What do you think about Area Perception enhacement?

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

This?
PK Awareness 10 (Increased Range 50x, +50%; Extended Arc, 360°, +125%; Granted by familiar, -40%; Nuisance Effect, sensed by touch at Per-7, -5%; Psychokinesis, -10%; Requires Per Roll, -5%) [43]

I'm not quite sure what this is. It's leveled, which doesn't fit with other scanning senses, and granted by an unspecified ally/familiar. I'd also rule against that nuisance effect since it mostly requires a crit to spot. Not knowing what ability it's based on I'm can't be sure what the total range is either. Perhaps it's from a more recent supplement?

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

The only question is why it's para radar at all. If it doesn't work underwater and can be detected without super science?
Maybe stupid question. But from mechanical perspective it's Imaging Radar with a slight twist.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

In context, Area Perception is an enhancement I mentioned, which comes from Powers: Totems and Nature Spirits, p. 5. Offered for Detect and Clairaudience, it means you can freely switch perspective to any point within range, or can observe everything within the range simultaneously at a penalty. Exactly how it works with Detect, which doesn't have a fixed range, is unfortunately not explained.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

I'd accept that. I don't use imaging radar much so I hadn't noticed it was half the price.

I don't have that supplement so I'm not sure what that enhancement does.

Re: [PP] [P] Psionic Ability Building
 

It looks like a thing I did for a character a while ago, by adapting the Awareness ability from Psionic Powers.