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Donny Brook 08-27-2024 05:36 PM

Re: 4e Revised
 
To save space, I would drop the original magic system from the core books in favor of a brief explanation of how to make Advantages work like 'magic'.

Also I would rationalze the way exotic skills (Power Blow etc.) work and work Imbuements into that.

It would also be nice to have a section combining core parts of How to Be a GURPS GM and Action 2.

Rolando 08-27-2024 06:00 PM

Re: 4e Revised
 
I think that a new 4e GURPS Lite or GURPS 4e Update with a series of changes to make the most common changes/upgrades official will do.

We already have GURPS in 3 books, Characters, Campaign and Powers (or any mix of your 3 favorite GURPS books for that matter)... and no matter how you rearrange the books you will end with some people that will think of better ways of rearranging it. I like the way advantages are separate from disadvantages for example, I would't like mixing them in categories, forcing me to look at multiple categories in search of a -5 pointer.

dataweaver 08-27-2024 08:28 PM

Re: 4e Revised
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook (Post 2535858)
To save space, I would drop the original magic system from the core books in favor of a brief explanation of how to make Advantages work like 'magic'.

Well, GURPS Magic is very nearly self-contained; I think the only thing it needs from the Basic Set is the Magery Advantage. So, yeah; if the space is needed, I could see cutting the Magic chapter. But I'd rather not if it can be avoided.

That said, I'd also take the opportunity to publish a GURPS Magic 4e Revised, adding Magery and Magical Resistance to the book to make it truly self-contained, and applying the numerous corrections to its spells that were the result of Magic being a rushed project coming out before 4e had properly settled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook (Post 2535858)
Also I would rationalze the way exotic skills (Power Blow etc.) work and work Imbuements into that.

Coming up with a generic, universal exotic skills system has been a long-time dream of mine; but I honestly don't see it being a 4eR thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook (Post 2535858)
It would also be nice to have a section combining core parts of How to Be a GURPS GM and Action 2.

This. 4e has a chapter on advice for the GM; I could see updating it using How to Be a GURPS GM as a guide. And the "10 for 10" article cited several sections of Action 2 for inclusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolando (Post 2535860)
I think that a new 4e GURPS Lite or GURPS 4e Update with a series of changes to make the most common changes/upgrades official will do.

The problem with that is that it involves consulting multiple books: the 4e Basic Set for the original rules, and the 4e Update to see if rose particular rules have been revised. I can see putting out an Update, too, as long as it isn't too extensive. But the reason for a 4eR would be to avoid having to consult multiple books in order to know what's going on with one rule: it should incorporate errata and revisions directly into the text, rather than providing a patch to use alongside the text.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolando (Post 2535860)
We already have GURPS in 3 books, Characters, Campaign and Powers (or any mix of your 3 favorite GURPS books for that matter)... and no matter how you rearrange the books you will end with some people that will think of better ways of rearranging it.

Technically true; but in practice, you're just being dismissive of the proposal rather than actually bringing forward a solid argument why it's fine the way it is. Except for:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolando (Post 2535860)
I like the way advantages are separate from disadvantages for example, I would't like mixing them in categories, forcing me to look at multiple categories in search of a -5 pointer.

Instead, you have to look through an alphabetical list in search for a –5 pointer. Not much of an improvement; especially since you can do that just as easily by consulting the lists of Traits that already exist in 4e's Characters.

Donny Brook 08-27-2024 09:41 PM

Re: 4e Revised
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dataweaver (Post 2535852)
What would you recommend?

The issue is the animal stats seem rather haphazardly thrown together. Canines are missing improved hearing, bears are missing improved smelling, boars poor vision is not accounted for, etc.

So I recommend that they all be revisited by someone with more subject matter knowledge and more attention to detail.

pawsplay 08-27-2024 10:05 PM

Re: 4e Revised
 
Also, animals need some kind of tweak to deal with "mental stun."

rkbrown419 08-27-2024 10:14 PM

Re: 4e Revised
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook (Post 2535858)
To save space, I would drop the original magic system from the core books in favor of a brief explanation of how to make Advantages work like 'magic'.

If you're going that route incorporate at least the bare bones of powers and make Sorcery the games default magic system. It's much more generic and flexible than the current standard.

Ramidel 08-28-2024 12:45 AM

Re: 4e Revised
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rkbrown419 (Post 2535869)
If you're going that route incorporate at least the bare bones of powers and make Sorcery the games default magic system. It's much more generic and flexible than the current standard.

Honestly, Magic and Psionics in the corebook feel like the legacy of GURPS' origins in The Fantasy Trip. Both should be stripped out and left to the add-on modules, which have the space to deal with them properly.

Anders 08-28-2024 04:43 AM

Re: 4e Revised
 
Almost everyone plays fantasy. Stripping out magic would lose a large portion of the player base.

tbone 08-28-2024 05:16 AM

Re: 4e Revised
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders (Post 2535888)
Almost everyone plays fantasy. Stripping out magic would lose a large portion of the player base.

Do many people play fantasy using only Basic Set and its magic rules, though? Or would many new 4e Revised buyers be likely to do so?

I don't know, but I don't expect the answer to either is "lots of people"...

I appreciate what BS accomplishes in presenting the "classic" magic system in 20 or so pages, but the Psionics chapter does its job in just 4 pages by taking the "use advantages, with Power Modifiers and Talents" approach. A 4e Revised treatment of magic could do pretty much the same (while of course pointing to Magic and other books for alternate takes).

Might make sense to just roll short treatments of magic, psi, maybe superpowers, etc. into the Advantages chapter as applied examples. Just enough to get players going, with pointers to the full treatments in other books.

Interesting to consider, anyway, for a hypothetical revision.

Anders 08-28-2024 05:30 AM

Re: 4e Revised
 
I think there are disadvantages that should really be Self-Control but are not. Examples are Stubbornness (which is a SC disadvantage in DFRPG), Paranoia (roll whenever you have to trust someone) and Shyness (roll whenever you have to go on stage).


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