Re: 4e Revised
 

I think 3rd to 4th would be a better comparison. But I do agree that a great many of the proposals in this thread really ought to be a 5e thing rather than a 4eR thing; the clearest exceptions in terms of rules changes would be things that, in retrospect, were mistakes in 4e (such as Off-Hand Weapon Training being a Technique when that's clearly overpriced), or rules such as those highlighted in Ten For Ten.

Re: 4e Revised
 

What are the popular house rules these days anyhow?

Re: 4e Revised
 

• I make criticals less common- on a natural 3 or 18 or success/failure by 10. It's more intuitive (all ones or all sixes) and 5% of attacks being criticals is silly.
• I add a self-control roll to Pacifism.
• I use the more regular Strength Damage progression, with swing damage increasing for every ST point and thrust increasing for every 2 ST points at high ST.
• I have picks and spikes do piercing damage with a (2) armor divisor, like a bodkin.
• I have slings do crushing damage.

And I use a lot of optional rules or rules from other sources:

• Optional Rules for Injury (B420).
• Optional Wounding Rules (HT162).
• A bunch of the meta rules for Buying Success/Effect/Reactions, Player Guidance, Flesh Wounds, Miraculous Recoveries, etc. from Impulse Buys. These can pretty much replace Luck and Serendipity.
• The rules for Tactics skill in Martial Arts.
• The Slam rules from Dungeon Fantasy.
• Fantastic Dungeon Grappling (thanks, Doug!)
• Etc.

Re: 4e Revised
 

One of my weird gaming pet peeves is when critical chance adjusts in a way I have to remember it and just keeping 3/18 is something I'll borrow.

Also, I'll just put this out there, if they were to launch a 5th edition kickstarter, I can see myself backing that.

Re: 4e Revised
 

I'm not certain I would back a GURPS 5e for the following reasons:

1) GURPS VEHICLES for 4e was never released. This implies there will never be a GURPS 5e version of VEHICLES

2) some of the changes in 5e invalidated portions of GURPS 3e material. Not all TOO bad of a deal, but when you look at GURPS TRAVELLER and the lack of GURPS VEHICLES design system for 4e, that threw out of of my favorite aspects for use with GURPS - that of TRAVELLER. I don't think GURPS 5e would change that.

3) If there had been continued Support for GURPS 3e character design with GURPS CHARACTER ASSISTANT, I suspect that I'd STILL be running GURPS 3e based games. Why? While not exactly at the "Loath" level - I REALLY dislike the robots rules built as characters for 4e. If I had wanted to play a HERO like game system, I'd have purchased that game system and stuck with it instead of GURPS.

What precisely will GURPS 5e do to improve the game or fix the mistakes of 4e? What will a new book do that I can't already do with my own house rules? Why hasn't there been published books such as a Bestiary in 4e terminology instead of GM's having to build their own versions using 4e character and powers rules?

The list goes on. 4e's lack of development as compared/contrasted with 3e development only makes one wonder "what will they do for 5e that is better than what 4e overall has accomplished.

Yes - I have been with SJGames since the heyday of role playing (Before MtG and other collectiable card games). I was part of those who helped support (as consumers) SJGames before times grew lean and resulted in multiple game companies either sinking into oblivion or going bankrupt. SJGames has to do what they do to remain in the black - which is good. That is the whole point of running a business in the first place.

So, yes, I've picked up a fair number of 4e books, but regretted them as material I'll never use. GURPS YRTH is one of those books that I never picked up a PDF for despite having it in Dead Tree version. Many of the alternative magic systems as PDF's reside in my library that I will never use with my gaming crew - because it is like every other "build your own spells" system. It takes time and effort for the GM or his players to build up a list of spells based on the legality of options chosen. Shek P'var (Columbia Games for HARN MASTER) is one hell of a game design systems for your own spells - but it isn't easy to use with NPC mages where/when needed at the spur of a moment. GURPS MAGIC at least allows for quick NPC mage builds (at least when you're reasonably familiar with the system - because ALL of the spells are in black and white already premade.

In the end? I'm still playing what amounts to GURPS 3.5. GURPS CYBERPUNK using 4e character rules, with GURPS 3.0 Vehicle designs using the "Near Future" definition" (I almost NEVER ran SCI-FI games beyond TL 8 in 3e or possibly TL 9 - only with Traveller did I really need more).

So, that's my take - by a man whose lifespan is likely measurable in cat years these days. If 5e takes off, great. SJGames is going to have to get new customers to keep its doors open - as the old timers are slowly (and soon rapidly) dying off. But for my money?

3eRevised is still the way to go. Give me a GURPS 4e VEHICLE DESIGN system and I'll be a little happier with 4e's overall appeal. Give me a full fledged build of a Bestiary (Fantasy and normal) and I'll be happy. Those I'll back with my own money in a Kickstarter. If I had any hopes in GURPS VEHICLE DESIGN - I'd back that with a DOUBLE kickstarter pledge. If David Pulver and SJGames could be appealed to to actually TRY a Kickstarter for GURPS VEHICLE DESIGN - possibly assisted by Doug Cole, I'd plunk down $200 right then and there for it. But for GURPS 5e? No.

Re: 4e Revised
 

What's wrong with this one? It's literally a monster manual converted to 4e.

I'm not ONLY trying to be snarky. I'm still scratching my head that "only" 550 copies of this went out given how long it's been called for (much as you just did) and the importance of fantasy to the hobby.

Re: 4e Revised
 

Trying to be helpful and not snarky -- I wonder if in terms of quality and effort you've pitched that product at a 'Jack Astors' level that most buyers would prefer to get at a 'Chick Fil A' level.

Re: 4e Revised
 

There's a surprisingly large number of people who seem to just love to complain that there's no bestiary for 4e, and it doesn't seem to matter how often someone points out things like Doug's amazing contribution, or all the other volumes that contain a wide variety of "beasts", they will never agree there's a bestiary. SJ Games could print a volume labelled Bestiary, and they'd still complain and fail to acknowledge it, because it's not 100% exactly the bestiary they want. It's just weird.

I get your analogy, but I reckon there would be more people disappointed at a lower quality, lower effort tome. I really think some people just love a cloudy day so they can complain more.

Re: 4e Revised
 

In Response to the three preceding responses above...

What is wrong with a private publication that I was unaware of? Nothing. That I had to find out directly via this post - that belies a hit or miss approach only in the sense that I've not directly seen it until now, and that SJGames did not publish it specifically and advertise it as a SJGames product, etc.

When I get a chance, I'll take a peek at it more closely. I did pick up "Shields Up" but have yet as to digest it sufficiently for use with my campaigns in GURPS. Part of the issue is that it is dependent upon DUNGEON FANTASY material, which I do not collect with any real effort...

As for snarky or dissatisfaction etc...

There is always going to be material that doesn't reach the 100% approval rating from the people who buy products. That doesn't preclude the fact that such a product could be produced and enjoyed to what ever extent or popularity it may accrue.

So, I see no snark from Doug's comment - and even if there had been intent to be snarky (which failed to perceive) - Doug's integrity and kindness has earned him (in my eyes) enough fortitude and credit - that he could call me fat, drunk, and stupid - telling me it is no way to go through life, and I'd grin saying ANIMAL HOUSE! That being aside - Doug's formula for calculating gun damage is pretty much on the mark. Had SJGames marketed a bestiary with Doug Cole as the Author - and marketed it etc - I'd have purchased it in a heartbeat.

This one though - that Doug brought up, will take me a little while to amass the funds to purchase and pick up (hopefully SOON).

When I said in no uncertain terms, I'd earmark 200 immediately. Why? Doug and Pulver. Hands down, two people I'd buy a dinner for were they in my neighborhood or I in theirs - and two people I would desperately miss should they join the other side of Life's domain before I could.

So, Doug, thanks for the shout out, I'll take a look into it.

PS - if SJGames put out one bestiary that combined both the Fantasy and the non-fantasy into one book, I'd buy it. But if the return on investment means they will never do it, that's fine, I still have GURPS FANTASY BESTIARY and GURPS BESTIARY. **shrug**

Re: 4e Revised
 

SJ Games didn't publish it, but they did licence Gaming Ballistic and they absolutely promoted the Kickstarter when it was running and the product is available from SJ Games via Warehouse 23:

https://warehouse23.com/products/nor...a616d579&_ss=r