Acute hearing and darkness
 

There seems to be a discrepancy in the rules for movement in total darkness and acute hearing. In the section on Darkness, we see
On the other hand, in the entry for acute hearing, we learn that characters with this talent may
Thus, whether one has Acute Hearing or not, he can move safely in darkness at up to 1/2 MA. This can't be correct, since the text strongly suggests that those with Acute Hearing have movement advantages in darkness.

My thought is that the text one 119 is too generous and that someone without Acute Hearing should be in danger of tripping at lower speeds than 1/2 MA. One could decide that 1/4 MA, rounding down, is a better limit. That would still allow a character with MA 10 to move at a walk without fear, which may or may not be reasonable. An MA 12 character could move faster than a walk. The penalty for darkness on broken ground could be cumulative, so that one couldn't walk faster than 1/8 MA, rounding down but minimum one hex.

Surely someone else has noticed this issue?

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

Perhaps the first quote refers to when you're in combat, and the second quote when just moving around.

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

Good find. I agree with your take that this is a conflict and that pg 119 is too generous.

Instead of doing 1/4 MA, I would just limit MA without saving roll to MA 2 in the dark.

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

Even in familiar settings and moving slowly, it is easy to stumble and trip on things. I’d be inclined to require those without Acute Hearing 5/DX for moving in darkness at more than half-MA and 4/DX at half MA, and those with the talent to roll 3/DX at more than half-MA and no roll if moving no more than half.

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

A suggestion, for those who wish to, would be to read the sections on Playing the game, Did he see it, did he recognize it, Mapping the Adventure, Time, Speed and distance, How many turns, Light and Lights effect on Combat. I would suggest reading the entirety of the talent Acute Hearing as well. Relevant page numbers are 68, 69, 70. Clarity will be provided for those who do so. But do as you wish, YMMV.

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

If there is something relevant to the issue of moving in total darkness on those pages, I certainly missed it. It happens, of course.

So, perhaps you could just come right out and say what you mean. What on those pages is directly relevant to the question of how fast one may safely move in total darkness and how Acute Hearing affects that speed? That strategy might be a little more useful than giving a three page reading assignment in a voice dripping with condescension.

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

Maybe it’s that walking speed is 3 hexes?

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

Maybe.

I thought both you and Axly had good suggestions. Yours are a little finer and more complicated than Axly's and more generous (as was my suggestion) as well.

Axly's MA 2 restriction puts one at less than a walking speed. That makes sense, honestly. In total darkness, I don't think I can walk my normal pace without bumping into stuff.

I like your suggestion that the faster I go, the more likely I fall. Surely, trotting in the dark is neither risk-free nor as difficult as a sprint in the dark and your increasing number of dice works for that.

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

Page 69

"This means that the GM must note which characters have certain talents, and what their IQ rolls are. Detect Traps, Alertness, Acute Hearing, Recognize Value, and Naturalist all operate automatically. Characters with these talents are often entitled to information without asking for it; the GM rolls dice and says “You see . . .”

"He must be walking. This is a speed of one labyrinth-map hex per turn (3 MA). A running character cannot map. Strictly
speaking, the map-maker could not map very well while holding a weapon, though a charitable GM may overlook this if he likes."

Page 69-70
"Time, Speed, and Distance
Each turn lasts 5 seconds. Movement on the labyrinth map is at one of two speeds:
Walking: 1 map hex per turn. At this speed, the party can map, and has a normal chance of spotting traps, etc. Since
this is the speed at which a party travels when nothing much is happening, a GM may lump turns together and take 5 or 6
hexes at a time, to speed up play. Remember: each of these hexes is really 1 MH."

"When figures are in combat, the game system rules what they can do. When they are not in combat, the GM must
judge how many five-second turns each action would take – keeping in mind that it takes longer to do something if you’re
running. Some examples:
Make one search for a trap, hidden door, etc. – 6 turns.
Attempt to remove a trap – 12 turns.
Spring a trap intentionally – 1 turn.
Pull out a molotail and light it – 1 turn.
Take off a backpack – 2 turns.
Remove an item from someone else’s pack while they have it on, or from your own while it’s on the ground – 6 turns.
Light a torch – 6 turns.
Search a body for loot – 6 turns.
Kill a helpless figure – 1 turn.
Ask a question and get an answer – 1 turn for a simple question, more if it’s complicated"

Page 70
"Light’s Effect on Combat"

"Total darkness reduces DX by 6 except for those few creatures who have natural dark vision, or for a figure with Dark Vision or Mage Sight. If you have Acute Hearing, you fight in the dark at only -4 DX."

"Acute Hearing (2): This is the ability that the blind develop – being able to sense walls, obstructions, and living beings
by sound and pressure waves in the air. A figure with Acute Hearing can (1) hear approaching beings before they hear
her, unless her own party is making too much noise (GM’s discretion); (2) travel in the dark at only half her normal
speed, though with no chance of noticing hidden doors, traps, etc.; (3) detect invisible or hidden creatures within 3
MH on a 4-die roll against IQ, if her own party is silent (she listens for breathing); (4) fight in the dark at -4 DX instead
of -6. A figure with this ability cannot be taken by surprise from behind – her “sixth sense” will warn her."

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

Warhorse,
Thanks for listing that out. Let me summarize and please let me know if I got it right.

I think your point is that Acute Hearing says "traveling" at half speed is about movement through a labyrinth map and not about half MA during combat. Since it said half of traveling and not half MA.

So, that would be 1 hex of labyrinth map every 10 seconds instead of every 5.

In combat, that would be half of MA 3. I guess either MA 1 or 2 since it does not specify.

If I got this wrong, let me know how.

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

That is correct. But it does go further.
The rules also say that a party moving in darkness has no chance to notice hidden things. So that piece is simply confirming that you can move, but you can't find hidden doors, etc.
It isn't specifically addressing 1/2 MA in combat, but combat rules do that on their own. You surrender any chance of striking if you move more than 1/2 your MA and striking with a spell or a missile weapon limit one to 1 hex in combat movement.
The talent does provide distinct benefits, but other than the above, they don't reference movement. You can't be surprised in the dark from behind. You can hear approaching beings before they here you, You can detect beings at up to three MH distant (which could allow one with high enough DX to either fire a missile weapon or a missile spell), you fight with a reduced penalty in darkness, but your party has to be quiet. Other than that, you bear the same risks as someone without the talent moving in the dark. The wording of the talent and some of the portions I mentioned in my first post would, I believe, support the idea that if you try to move too quickly, you rob yourself of the talent's benefits and are just as likely as anyone else to fall from moving to fast in the dark, the 3 or in some cases 4 die rolls mentioned earlier for moving faster than 1/2 your MA.

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

Thanks, Axly, for summarizing the claim.

There are some issues with this reading. First, if we read "travel" as referring to the map hex speed of movement, then we get your calculation that a figure with Acute Hearing can move one map hex every two turns in the dark. However, in that case we have no hint at all how fast anyone else may travel in the dark. At best, then, ITL has given an exception to the speed of travel in the dark without giving the usual rule for that speed.

Note that tomc made such a suggestion about how to read the discrepancy as well.

If we extrapolate from that to consider per turn movement on the 4'/hex scale, we get one or two hexes per turn, but since anyone can move at up to half-movement without fear of falling down (per ITL 119), this is no advantage at all.

I think that if we try to read "travel" as different than "move", we're just going to get into paradoxical situations of one form or the other. One map hex per turn is the same as three hexes per turn[1], so we should be able to translate anything said about traveling to the equivalent statement in terms of movement allowance, but it all breaks down[2]. It would be weird if I can move a lot faster in combat with no penalty than I can move outside of combat.

[1] An argument can be made that it's really not the same, but more like two and a third map hexes per turn on average, because of the fact that every straight line through the center of one megahex are only five hexes long cuts through only two hexes of each of the next two megahexes, so that we really cover only seven hexes when traversing three megahexes.

[2] It also breaks down just looking at the rules for walking and running on p. 119, but that's clearly due to rounding errors. An MA of 10 gives 4 MH running per turn, which is spot on for a ratio of seven hexes for every three megahexes, but too fast otherwise. The other values are similarly off, but these discrepancies just make keeping track of movement on the labyrinth map much easier and so we ignore them.

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

Does this mean that Shadow hexes require 2 MA to enter?

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

Not for the first one, but I'd sure consider it for continuing to move through a long succession of Shadow hexes -- not that it ever comes up.

Re: Acute hearing and darkness
 

Exactly right.