Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

Can a summoned Myrmidon have IQ higher than 8?

If it has IQ 9, can it take non weapon talents like "Toughness" ?

Same question if spell was an Illusion of a summoned Myrmidon?

(given its 32 points many options are limited, just trying to understand legal permutations).

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

It's my understanding that the summoned fighter cannot have any talents beyond the use of the basics needed for the weapons with which he is equipped and that his 32 attribute point combination allows.

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

The Myrmidon summon is very open to interpretation imho. The spell specifically states
"..if the wizard wishes, the Myrmidon can be any starting (32 point) fighter with any legal combination of regular weapons and armor...."
So must be a fighter not a wizard (although the summon magic myrmidon is a cool concept)
and "regular" weapons/armor seems pretty clear in intent that myrmidons cannot come equipped with fine +DX/Dam. swords or flaming weapons etc. Now does this mean they cannot come with peculiar weapons like net and trident or a bola? Answering this question first seems to be foundational to your question of talents such as toughness as many of the exotic weapon choices require different talents to operate.
(None of the above should be confused or shadowed by the Illusion spell limits of IQ 7 weapons talents as that is a completely different spell with different parameters of perception by the enemy see p.139)

Personally I think it is rude to ask players in the middle of a combat to please pause while they create or adjust a summoned fighter so they can somehow gain an advantage to the particular situation/enemy they are facing, instead of using the generic fighter listed.

However, if a player came to me as the GM with a set list of 32pt myrmidons that they wish to use during the campaign I would allow full use of any talents, weapons and or armor they wish to design into them. I am thinking maybe a half dozen different fighters predone and ready to deploy would both flavorful and nondisruptive. But honestly, I cannot think of the last time anyone used the spell...sigh...

(I have always imagined that magi make inroads or pacts with other dimensional worlds/planes of existence where they pull such summoned creatures from anyway....)

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

I impose the limits of Melee on Summon Myrmidon. You get two weapons from the Melee list (a shield counts as a weapon), and a dagger, and the basic talents for those weapons.

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

I do similar to the above with also allowing for any additional talents that a starting fighter may know. Except, no unusual weapons as they are not basic weapons.

You may want a fighter with a spear that knows Seamanship. This is a easy fighter to quickly draw up.

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

So it's a Summon Linguist spell?

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

I'm completely the other direction. I want all 'myrmidons' to be the same. For me, the spell is accessing a universal warrior template, not some kind of custom-built cohort.

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

Talents, not languages

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

I'm with Henry on this interpretation which goes back to the original Wizard microgame.

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

If the question is, how does this work RAW?, then I think it is obvious that any standard weapons and armor (things that appear on all the sub-sections of the equipment tables except possibly 'unusual weapons') are allowed, anything fine or magical is forbidden, and the 'unusual weapons' are at the GM's discretion, or consensus of all players if you are in a competitive arena combat situation.

This need for judgement is just one of countless instances where the specific choices of words in RAW are open to interpretation, so you have to make an interpretation - there is no 'correct' reading at the level of detail we are discussing.

But my 2 cents worth is that it is a bit nitpicky and too controlling to rule against use of most of the unusual weapons, like net and trident, spear thrower, lasso, etc. There is nothing particularly special about their material or construction, their use was widespread historically, and the only thing noticeably different from sword, axe, etc. is that they require a different talent to use proficiently. Yes, some of them have special rules to adjudicate their attacks, but the same is true of pole weapons.

Wizard's staff seems obviously contrary to the rule that your myrmidon has to be a fighter, not a wizard (though I suppose you could summon one holding another person's staff if you just wanted to watch them blow up!).

The tricky cases might be the gunpowder weapons, molotail and gas bomb. I feel like most GM's and play groups would agree they are out of bounds for a summoned myrmidon. But if it came up I'd have to give it a thought before I decided. A renaissance wizard summoning an arquibusier isn't actually a deranged idea, nor does it confer a particularly unbalancing advantage. But one with a petard seems to violate the spirit of the rule.

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

While I won't allow it, summoning a fighter with an arquebus would be hilarious.

Because it takes 4 turns to ready the arquebus. 2 ST to summon, 4 ST to ready and finally 1 ST for the turn to fire it. If you got 7 ST and 6 turns to spare it would be worth the 3d+3 damage.

Forget reloading as it would be faster to summon a new one.

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

Surely, surely we never assumed a summoned or illusory fighter doesn't appear with its weapon(s) ready??? How could it ever work otherwise?

The creation cannot act on the turn it appears, call that Turn 1. If it cannot ready it's weapon until Turn 2, completing its action for Turn 2 by doing so, then it cannot make an attack until Turn 3.

I've never heard of or seen anyone who played it that way. Created fighters may attack on the turn after the turn they appear. How did they do that if they didn't appear already holding a ready weapon? Does anyone make them wait until the third turn to make an attack?

ITL 137: "Since a summoned creature is real, it behaves in all ways like any other figure, except that (a) it cannot move, fight, defend itself, or do anything else on the turn it is created..."

So it cannot use options (e) or (m) on the turn it was created. It must have come with weapon ready on the turn it is created, or it wouldn't have it ready for the start of the following turn.

Also on ITL 137: "A created being cannot move or fight on the turn it appears. At the beginning of the next turn, it can pick an option..."

It doesn't exclude the option to attack in that next turn, nor does it mention it must spend this next turn readying its weapon -- surely that would have been stated if it were ever the intent to require it.

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

The arquebus rules says it takes 12 turns to load and ready. I am assuming the fighter has done so.

The arquebus rules also states that the arquebus must be fired using a stand. It separately mentions that it takes 4 turns to set up before firing (separate from the loading). Presumably these 4 turns are for setting the stand.

I don't see why else they have 4 turns to ready vs. 12 turns to ready & load.

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

I agree that the intent of the rule seems to be that any arquibusier has to spend 4 turns getting their weapon into position to fire in a specific direction, and I think that would have to apply to one who was summoned as much as it does to a normal person.

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

Good grief, I read "arbalest" where Axly typed "arquebus".

You're both correct and I'm not. Sorry about that!

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

I think your signature line doesn't really match this post.

Re: Summon Myrmidon - raw legal permutations
 

LOL!!!!!!!!!!