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-   -   [Psionics] New or Modified Probability Alteration abilities (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=194576)

Prince Charon 01-23-2024 03:36 AM

[Psionics] New or Modified Probability Alteration abilities
 
What it says on the tin. Feel free to also post your own, or critique others.

I think versions of this first one have been posted elsewhere, but I may have chosen different options if I was one of the ones posting it before:

Suggestion, 10/20/25/40 for levels 1-4

Suggestion, IQ/H

This Suggestion ability works mechanically rather like the Telepathic ability of the same name, but fluffwise can be thought of as a highly specialized form of Adjustment or Coincidence: You make it much more likely that the target will agree with you. Ranges are slightly modified, with level 1 extending to Reach 1, and levels 2 - 4 having the ranges of Telepathic Suggestion's levels 3 - 5. (While adding higher levels with the Long-Range enhancement is possible, it hurts plausibility unless either your GM is fine with using this ability over the phone, radio, or similar, or you have an additional modifier to allow it. Personally, I'd prefer making levels 5 and up progressively-larger Area Effect enhancements, though at 25 points per level, that's a bit steep.)

Statistics: Suggestion (Power Modifier changed from 'Telepathy, -10%' to 'Probability Alteration, -10%'; Contact Agent is dropped and 'Melee Attack C, -30%' changed to 'Melee Attack C, 1, -20%'; Hearing-based (Target's Hearing), -20%; Nuisance Effect: Only on people who share a language with me, -10%; level two replaces Melee Attack with Short-Range 1, level three removes Short Range, and level four replaces the Suggestion limitation with 'Cannot influence emotions, -10%.')


Hexus, 5/level

Hexus, IQ/H

If a machine is complicated enough that bad luck can make it malfunction in ways other than 'purely user error' or 'a part broke,' it does... unless the target succeeds on the resistance roll.

Statistics: Affliction (Machines Only, -20%; Probability Alteration, -10%; Requires IQ roll, -10%; Resisted by Malf., -10%) [5/level]


Chaos Injection, 19/22/25/30 points for levels 1-4, and 3 points per level thereafter.

Chaos Injection, IQ/H

The user 'injects chaos into the body of the target' (or in other words, gives them health-focused Very Bad Luck), usually causing a range of immediate and inconvenient health problems. The target becomes Dizzy at level 1, Nauseated at level 2, Stunned and Easy to Kill at level three, and takes Toxic damage from level 4 up.

The Cyclic effect of the Toxic Attack lasts for the duration of the Affliction (usually one minute), but may also cease when the target makes a successful HT roll minus your level in this ability, or if it is interfered with by other psi abilities, such as Coincidence or Serendipity, Psychic Healing, Meta-Psi, or an Adjustment roll opposed by your skill with Chaos Injection.

Statistics: Affliction (Dizzy, +20%; Malediction, +100%; Nuisance Effect (on a critical failure, or if the target has a critical success on the resistance roll, the target instead gains (2d-1) levels distributed by the GM between Hard to Kill and Hard to Subdue, for the duration of this ability), -10%; Probability Alteration, -10%; Requires IQ roll, -10%) [19]
Higher levels add Nauseated, +30% [22], then Stunning, +10% and Disadvantage: Easy to Kill (1d+1), +15% [25], and then add Link, +10% and Toxic Attack 1d-2 (Cyclic, 10 seconds, +50%; Follow-up (Linked Affliction); Link, +10%; Malediction, +100%; Probability Alteration, -10%; Requires IQ roll, -10%; Resistible (HT-3), -15%) [30]. Further levels add +1 to Toxic Attack [+3/level].



EDIT: An ability is not necessarily available in every setting that uses the Power that ability is based on; it depends on the GM, and the setting's internal logic. Even if it is allowed, the GM may need to add new modifiers, or to change replace existing ones.


Thoughts?

TGLS 01-23-2024 11:21 AM

Re: [Psionics] New or Modified Probability Alteration abilities
 
I dunno about the first and the third. I mean, literally anything can be justified by "luck manipulation", from permeation through walls to teleportation to burning your enemies to a crisp. But if that's the case, why bother having other powers?

Donny Brook 01-23-2024 12:15 PM

Re: [Psionics] New or Modified Probability Alteration abilities
 
Aesthetically, to me, agreement or disagreement is not a function of probability. So the first one doesn't make a good fit IMO. Also, I think the Nuisance limitation is better characterized as an Accessibility limitation.

I like the other two, but does every machine have a Malf. stat?

Prince Charon 01-24-2024 06:24 AM

Re: [Psionics] New or Modified Probability Alteration abilities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TGLS (Post 2513769)
I dunno about the first and the third. I mean, literally anything can be justified by "luck manipulation", from permeation through walls to teleportation to burning your enemies to a crisp. But if that's the case, why bother having other powers?

I'd say it depends on what the GM will allow under that heading, as not every ability is useful or permitted in every game ( e.g. Spirit Communication in a game with no spirits - and in a little bit, I'm going to edit a note into the opening post about that). I wouldn't allow permeation under PA without an incredibly good fluff, and I'd probably apply some significant limitations if I could think of any that fit the fluff being offered. Likewise for teleportation, and Spontaneous Combustion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook (Post 2513775)
Also, I think the Nuisance limitation is better characterized as an Accessibility limitation.

Would it be the same percentage, do you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook (Post 2513775)
I like the other two, but does every machine have a Malf. stat?

According to the Basic Set p279, yes, based on TL if unlisted (the text box labeled 'Optional Rule: Malfunctions' - TL6 and up are Malf. 17, for example). EDIT: Hexus would either not exist or need to be changed if the GM isn't using the optional rule, of course.

Anaraxes 01-24-2024 09:42 AM

Re: [Psionics] New or Modified Probability Alteration abilities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TGLS (Post 2513769)
literally anything can be justified by "luck manipulation"

Yes. It's okay as a general superhero theme, like "speedster" or "wizard", but it's not in itself an ability or mechanic of any sort. Way too broad and subject to abuse.

(Telekinesis is another of my peeves in this category. The GURPS ability as written isn't terrible, but I'm sure you've known players where the word is interpreted to mean "any and all matter anywhere around me rearranges itself to suit my will, on any scale and with any degree of precision, into any desired effect", probably along with "atoms weigh way less than a pound, so I really only need ST 1 with Area Effect". The latter description as fluff is another one of those nice, broad concepts -- basically Green Lantern, only with matter instead of power ring energy -- but no, you don't get to do everything you can imagine for 30 points.)

Important principle: If you can build an ability with the existing traits, as with the Suggestion ability in the OP ("mechanically rather like the Telepathic ability of the same name"), build it that way. "Buy the effects, not the name". Note that Prince Charon does exactly that in his examples in the OP.

"Fluffwise can be thought of" is exactly that - a fun, entertaining, creative addition to the game that doesn't call for new mechanics. IMO, it's much less painful and error-prone to bend an existing ability a bit than to invent new ones. Tweak the base abilities if necessary because they have too much of some other, inappropriate fluff built into their assumptions. Put the "Probability Alteration" PM on it, and give it the Limitations that make it feel however the PA PM is supposed to feel in the game. Presto, it's a "Probability Alteration ability".

"Control Probability" as a single ability is right out. The munchkin line here is just going to drag in quantum mechanics arguments on the beeline toward Scarlet Witch-style reality alteration. Note that the Control abilities in Powers generally have very specific and limited uses. Those abilities are not the general "control" in the usual comic-book sense, where "controls ice", say, lets you make ranged blasts, melee attacks with summoned weapons, fly and hover with a special effect of sliding on an ice sheet, Bind people in place, alter temperature, kill by lowering body temperature, etc.) The Powers versions are the last-ditch method for filling in some gaps left by a suite of other abilities, not the starting point for a character. Players looking for that kind of flexibility should just pony up for the Cosmic Modular Ability pool.

So, the thread is about feel and color and fluff, not mechanics.

To get a "probability" feel, I'd try to include traits based on Serendipity, change the Malf rolls on gear if the setting has tech, or give the character some sort of refreshing Destiny Point / Impulse Buy budget, so effects like Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy, Just a Flesh Wound, and Buying Success / Effect can happen for them. (Pricing those for a campaign where PCs don't have hero points of some sort could be tricky. But you might reverse the One Use Only rule and decide that if the original 1 CP per use is fair, then that's 1/5th of a 5-point ability that can be used once per session; buy more levels to use multiple times -- or just be content to play that "your luck has run out".) The Power Talent gives a bonus to Gambling and some Games, as opposed to "useful" adventuring skills. ("It's better to be lucky than good.") You might Afflict Total Klutz on enemies, though Cursed puts too much burden on the GM. (Also a problem with Weirdness Magnet. Suits the concept, but it's a strain to constantly invent novel, bizarre events.)

TGLS 01-24-2024 10:22 AM

Re: [Psionics] New or Modified Probability Alteration abilities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Charon (Post 2513851)
I wouldn't allow permeation under PA without an incredibly good fluff, and I'd probably apply some significant limitations if I could think of any that fit the fluff being offered.

I was thinking: "I quantum tunnel through the wall!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaraxes (Post 2513878)
Yes. It's okay as a general superhero theme, like "speedster" or "wizard", but it's not in itself an ability or mechanic of any sort. Way too broad and subject to abuse.

Important principle: If you can build an ability with the existing traits, as with the Suggestion ability in the OP ("mechanically rather like the Telepathic ability of the same name"), build it that way. "Buy the effects, not the name". Note that Prince Charon does exactly that in his examples in the OP.

Sure, but I'd argue the power is an effect, mostly because you buy talents by power, not by source. If I can swallow the abilities I want into PA, then I'm better off doing that as it makes it cheaper to buy up higher levels of skill.

Anaraxes 01-24-2024 01:34 PM

Re: [Psionics] New or Modified Probability Alteration abilities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TGLS (Post 2513884)
you buy talents by power, not by source. If I can swallow the abilities I want into PA, then I'm better off doing that as it makes it cheaper to buy up higher levels of skill.

A point. I'd have to say in practice, I've never made a super-powered character where I didn't automatically max the Power Talent (4, typically) before even looking at anything else. That's in part because I also like the "Skills for Everyone" rule, so every ability has an associated Hard skill. The skill bonus is bound to pay for itself for anything other than the "odd minor talent" sort of character whose points are really focused elsewhere, but for a gimmick or ace up the sleeve.

I don't think RAW even suggests that a power should have some limit on the number of capabilities that can go into it. The Talents do, just because of the usual price per number of skills. But a 5-point Talent is cost-effective with even two abilities / skills, and a 15 only needs 4. Those numbers are so small, and on the other end we haven't played with large enough point total to create a problem with dozens of abilities per character. So, I confess I've never even thought about needing a cap on maximum abilities per power.

Could come in handy for niche enforcement, I suppose. (We normally work out how not to step on other players' toes informally during Session Zero.) And niche is certainly one of those things to be aware of when working with really broad interpretations of themes, on which list probability shenanigans is right up at the top, almost as do-everything as "magic".

ravenfish 01-24-2024 01:39 PM

Re: [Psionics] New or Modified Probability Alteration abilities
 
"Magic", which is very close to a "do-everything" power, has a talent that is only ten points per level (whether using the normal skill-based magery or the "magic as powers" setup in Sorcery), so I wouldn't stress out too much about over-broad talents.

Donny Brook 01-24-2024 05:21 PM

Re: [Psionics] New or Modified Probability Alteration abilities
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Charon (Post 2513851)
Would it be the same percentage, do you think?

To be no use at all, I'll have to say it would have to vary by the nature of the campaign/setting.


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