Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

I remembered something from ADQ&A 4/4 (I think) , about Mini Rocket Platforms can ONLY mount Light Rockets or Mini Rockets , and not Medium , Heavy or Super Rockets (let alone Artillery Rockets ...) .

Mini Rocket Platforms - $75 , 50lbs , holds 1 Space of Rockets - were introduced in ADQ Volume 4 , Number 3 (Page 6 , so Uncle Albert's ?) .
I had my copy ADQ 4/4 stolen in the early 1990s , so can't refer to it & never saw the original item .

Only time I recall the Mini Rocket Platform being used is the Subcompact in ADQ 4/4 (the Starhawk ? Page 39) , which mounted two linked Laser Guided/Unguided Light Rockets on the Platform .

None of the CWCs or UACFH ever alluded to this restriction again .

I wonder if it was quitely dropped , like the 'Matching Weight' Rule mentioned for Side Sponson Turrets in in ADQ 9/3 ... and never brought up again ?

Any information or feedback welcomed guys .

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

I just looked up the entry in _Uncle Al's Catalog 2038_; it does state "only 1/3- or 1/2 space rockets due to structural limitations" there. It appears to have been deleted in blue-cover _Compendium_.

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

Thank you !

Someone wanted to mount an Artillery Rocket on a Light Trike ATV & we were discussing why it was probably 'A Bad Idea' ! Lol

Guess we'll Rule this as unfeasible to that Player ...

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

They could mount it...But the story blank and blue or something with the effect of mounting 3 autocannons to a rocket platform.....You can do it...But will rip the roof after the first or 2nd shot.

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

I'd have to look again, but: I'm not sure Rocket Platforms can use Rocket [Extra] Magazines; so having a 1-sp. rocket on a 1-sp. platform seems a tad inefficient.

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

Rocket Plantforms can't use Rocket Magazines & neither can Rocket EWPs .

Turrets (of course) can use them & after the UACFH Rule Change , so can Rockets in Standard EWPs .

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

I only ever went AP mini-rockets on these anyway. Rockets are so inaccurate you need a volley. 3 chances of 1d isn't a lot, but it flattens the probability curve.

Alternatively non-AP can make a reasonably effective anti-pedestrian weapon since you only need to get close and hitting the ground is far easier than hitting the ped (+4 vs -3 or worse).

I am not sure what difference it would make structurally, there is no recoil and the inertia of swinging round a single MR at 50lb vs 2 x LR at 25lb each is the same. Just more exceptions to make complications so dropping the restriction is hardly a game breaker.

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

Or even two linked Incendiary Light Rockets at 37.5lbs each = 75lbs Vs Medium Rocket of 50lbs ...

Some one used a SAM on a Mini Rocket Platform on one design , that was shown to me yesterday .
In General Play - and if it was the only Anti Air Weaponry you had on that Vehicle - it's probably fine .

To routinely arm Light Trike ATVs with lethal Armoured Car crippling Artillery Rockets , then no it's not ...

Combat Garage build engine lets you stick any Rocket on the Mini Platform , which muddies the waters even more unfortunately ...

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

Mm -- not sure if that would work; SAMs being anti-air weapons, the target ought to be in the Top arc of fire, and a RP can't do that unless it's Universal.

As to "Light Trikes with Artillery Rockets": It's like the joke about the guy who drinks nitroglycerin for his stage act.

"That's a great trick!"
"Yeah -- but I can only do it *once*!"

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

Not sure why you would put artillery rockets in a turret at all let alone a trike which has the best arc of fire of all the vehicle types, effectively a built in Sponson on each side.

The main benefit of a turret is the ability to target in any arc. Side mount them in a trike and you get the front and a side arc and can mount more than one. Link side arcs and you can volley to the front arc. In a light trike you should be able to get 2 per side and a volley of 4 (assuming you can stand the weight).

If you are tank hunting then you usually get to chose the attack vector so having a 360 degree turret isn't really a requirement.

The real issue is you are playing with CW Tanks equipment in your game. I trust you are following the artillery rules from that rules set (-2 to hit unless launch vehicle is stationary and has recoil spades set) or are you just using the equipment from UACFH.

A single Artillery tube in a field carriage is also fairly efficient.

Equally a single SAM on a rocket platform or otherwise is also hardly the last word in air defence. I haven't seen any air vehicle that can be seriously affected by a 4d weapon and the SAM still needs very short range for it to hit unless you are using lots of targeting electronics. If you are spending that much sustained fire with a MG would do you more good, which makes the Rocket Platform self limiting.

Reading a bit more closely, the Rocket Platform says single shot Rockets. I always took that to mean those items listed as single shot in the Rocket part of the weapons section. WGM, RGM and SAM specifically state they can be used with a Rocket Platform, Artillery Rockets don't so I would rule they cannot be put on the RP regardless of the size of the RP.

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

Oh I mostly agree .
Thinks the Artillery PIECES that need the Recoil Spades rather than the Artillery Rockets though . I hardly think a 50mm Artillery Piece would require either ?

Various Designs on the NOVA pages have Artillery Rocket in Rocket Magazines , but none there have them on Rocket Platforms that I seen .

More of a case of 'laughing boy' pushing his luck & us more experienced hands giving reasons to say a firm No to his mad ideas .

An Off-Road Compact with 3 Artillery Rockets is probably a better idea anyway . Or a stationary Mini-Van Trailer .

The Artillery Rules aren't the best really , requiring a Spotter :
What happens when you want to bombard a set of coordinates on a Map & don't bother with a Spotter ? Just unless a load of Shrapnel Shells , Mortars and ICM Rounds and just blanket an Area ?? Also Artillery Rockets could be used and many launched at once , like footage of those old Russian ones from WWII .

I'm away from my books , but this is really covered iirc and lead to shells going all over the place ...

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

The thing about bombardments is they are initially inaccurate. Most of them start from map coordinates and some maths. That puts you in the area. You could probably pre-zero if you had a static set up (like a defensive battery), but even then depending on the range, atmospheric conditions (and barrel temperature) might make small changes to the barrel geometry. At longer ranges (and indirect fire is usually longer range than the distance from firebase to target would indicate as the shells are lobbed) these minor changes lead to large deviations.

The spotter is used to correct the fire by relaying where the shots actually hit. Once the test shots are hitting he can call on fire for effect and they unleash hell.

That is simulated in the rules for indirect fire by making the initial to hit penalty is so large (-6) but allowing up to 6 turns of sustained fire bonus if you have a spotter to eventually cancel it out. Without a spotter you just don't get the sustained fire bonus.

If the gunner has LOS to the target they can act as their own spotter of course.

Of course without a spotter you might be able to get close enough to the target point but not at the right time to hit a vehicle passing over that point, just because you as a player can see the counter, it doesn't mean your gunner knows when to fire or can correct the aim point of their gun to keep up with a moving target that he can't see. If you want to allow artillery to hit pre-spotted target squares then apply the -6, but require all fire to be pre-scheduled before the game (i.e. artillery will fire at grid x,y on turn t, phase p). That should quickly demonstrate how pointless artillery fire is without a spotter for anything other than damaging fixed targets or relying on saturation barrages.

I am in two minds about the recoil spades for rockets, but whilst rockets are supposed to be recoilless, if you look at a youtube video of an MLRS firing (for example) you can see large rockets put quite a shimmy on the vehicle. Compared to the recoil effect on the AS90 it looks about the same. Neither vehicle have recoil spades.

I am inclined to assume that the gun/tube manages most of the recoil which is why rocket tubes are lighter than guns as they require less recoil equipment to compensate, but there is only so much compensation possible and the -2 applies unless the vehicle is also braced with recoil spades. I think the +2 for TGs is the braced and stationary bonus but, as usual in CW, this isn't clear :)

Recoil should really have some relation to the mass of the firing assembly, but CW decided to duck that issue early on with TGs giving a handling penalty based on body type. The recoil effect on firing is assumed to be included in the to hit number. Even a 37mm AT gun has significant recoil (and under the rules that would have a field carriage and therefore count as having recoil spades).

CW Tanks can add interest, but it is not really a credible tank wargame as it is layered onto a rules set that isn't really that crunchy in the first place. Outside its generic car with guns conceit it starts to fall apart. I stick to compendium only as it is about as far as you can push it without the interleaving of rules, turning it into a mess (and even then I avoid all but the wheeled vehicles).

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

Recall: The ATG originally had rules where it could not be mounted except in F or B arcs, *and* was a D1 when fired.

Personally: I think Tanks are effectively obsolete in _CW_, except as "manhood-measuring" devices; most "armies" use the infamous "Off-road Compact with HESH- or HEAT-loaded RR" as a baseline combat vehicle. (And with _Aeroduel_: "If nothing happens for ten minutes, and then your position is obliterated by artillery and air power....")

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

I was looking at CW third edition and that didn't mention a D1 hazard for firing ATG, nor did Delux, they simply prohibit side firing at all.

Later Truckstop introduced the TG (also F/B) with the D2 hazard. It also seems to have introduced the rocket platform but limited it to HR only (but this may have been the only single shot rocket available at the time).

It seems a later edition (or probably an ADQ&Q) introduced the rule allowing AT guns to be fired from the side from oversized vehicles and brought in the D1 hazard for this condition at this time.

It may have been a misunderstanding by one of the editors of the day or a tournament ref that saw the brief confusion that firing an ATG was always a D1 hazard which then made it back into UACFH.

CW "just growed" like Topsy and drifted out of synch with itself and even within the same supplement. I hoped UACFH would finally fix that, but in cases it made it worse and because it published the equipment shorn of the rules that went along with them we ended up with a book that perpetuated nonsense.

In CW all of it is canon and none of it is canon.

None of this really helps with the question "Should you be able to use an Arty rocket on a Rocket Platform". For this we need to piece it all together and form an opinion.

From CW Tanks:
1) Arty is designed to bombard an area, not as single shot sniping weapons.
2) Atry suffers a penalty to hit unless the vehicle has recoil spades. Should this apply to Rockets. A 75mm TG suffers no penalty but a 50mm Arty does. Why should they? Because the rules say they should and presumably some design compromises have been made to give them that HUGE burst effect. As this applies to all Arty, Arty rockets also suffer that penalty.
3) Can you mount a 1-space rocket on a mini rocket platform? Depends on which version, but I don't see why it should make any difference for a supposedly recoilless weapon and it adds complication with another exception so I am going to chose to believe it was removed intentionally.
4) Is an Arty Rocket the same as any other single-shot rocket? Even in UACFH it is listed in a separate section to the "Rocket Weapons", so there is a good argument that the general rocket rules don't apply to Arty Rockets.

For me the crux is that all Arty Rockets are a single space and that allows the use of a 15D weapon on a subcompact.

Fires as a bog standard rocket, NO.

Fired using the Artillery rules, YES
...Set-up and braced with recoil spades or -2 (assumption is that spades only affect weapons fired into the front arc).
...Artillery skill rather than Gunner.
...Battery fire only possible if all the vehicles are stationary and braced.
...Flight time of the Rockets also needs to be considered but for direct fire this unlikely to be an issue.
...Peds only take 1D from Arty, with the possibility of avoiding it entirely if prone etc.

With all those rules in place a single Arty Rocket, even an R7 isn't that game breaking, wherever it is launched from.

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

I believe this goes back to the original zip-loc edition.

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

I was looking at the pocket box edition but my one says it is 3rd edition revised. I'd be interested to know exactly what the revisions were.

I cut my teeth on Deluxe B&W onwards and only have the pocket box for reference and to try to work out where some of the rules came from (and maybe what the intent of those rules were in context).

I would probably have bought PDFs of those early editions if they had been on W23 as I am sad completist like that but I can't justify the real estate for 3 old dead tree editions that I will never play :)

Re: Mini Rocket Platforms : Only Light or Mini Rockets ?
 

That's a project I've been working on of-and-on: Going through the rules manuals, ADQs, etc., and charting what ruling was in-effect when.