[Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

Something I missed and can't figure out an answer to is when a character is considered to be engaged in combat, specifically if someone is running away and a faster character catches up and tries to hit them, but misses?

Is the target character engaged, even if the attack failed? Or do they get to access their full movement and actions as if they were still not engaged in melee?

I could go either way, personally. Since TFT has a single roll and does not have a reaction roll to each attack (ie a defend roll) I can assume there is various back and forth between the two combatants, even if the attacker does not land a hit. By that logic, the attack now occupies the attention of the person running away.

But, I could also see that if a person is not getting hit, they should be able to keep running away.

On the gripping hand, the reason routes in history were such bloodbaths is because it is a very bad position to be in when you are fleeing from a chasing attacker.

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

You are engaged by critters that might hurt you, not just those who have actually attacked.

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

The guidelines under "Escaping" on ITL 105 can be useful here. I'd probably allow someone fleeing to not have to stop, disengage, win initiative to run, etc. If the figure in pursuit had the MA to catch up and attempt HTH (and thus cut the flight short), I'd allow that.

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

They would require twice the MA of the escapee (should your variant be applied) as entering into HTH is a charge attack by ITL 102

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

ITL 116 states that if the attacker is disengaged, as they would be entering from the rear hex of a fleeing figure, this is a "regular move".

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

A turn consists of a movement phase and a combat phase. During the movement phase Runner moves. Then Pursuer moves and if he is able to make contact with Runner, Runner is engaged and Pursuer is engaged. If, when it becomes combat phase, Pursuer misses, well, lucky Runner.

An engaged figure is one that is adjacent to an armed enemy figure, and one of that figure's front hexes. ITL p101. So was Pursuer using a weapon to hit at Runner or was he just using his fists. Would fists be considered armed? Any way, Pursuer is at +4 DX for being at Runner's rear hex.

So at the start of next turn, initiative determines who goes first. But either way, the only Options are for Engaged Characters (ITL p 103). Runner can now spin and face Pursuer in a fight Option (j) shift and attack or (k) shift and defend. OR they can pick (n) Disengage. If Runner is slower DX-wise than Pursuer, he can be hit first. However, when it is his action, he can move 1 hex away thus disengaging. Hope his side wins initiative next turn.

And as Shostak says, use the Escaping Rule (ITL p105) if Runner is already ahead and as fast as or faster than Pursuer.

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

ITL 106: "For instance, a wolf, a martial artist, and a wizard are all dangerous foes and all of them engage you."

And if the foe is all three then it's already too late to run.

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

Bit of a sticky wicket in that, after the escapee runs at full MA, if the pursuer runs full MA to reach their rear (or side or even front) hex, the pursuer can no longer attack that turn because they exceeded 1/2 MA.

If the pursuer has no attack, have they really become engaged? Technically they have because that's the rule, but really why would the escapee stop running when the pursuer is still one hex behind them?

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

The first full paragraph at the top left of ITL102 offers some possible clarity. It mentions engaged as standing next to an enemy that endangers you physically.

If the pursuer has just moved full MA, they don't really endanger you since they can't attack. As long as you are already "Escaping" (ITL 105) and your MA is the same or higher then the pursuer, you get away provided you keep running. If not, better hope you win Initiative.

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

hmmm... Your comment makes me wonder. If my character ran full MA, but the pursuing character catches up and engages mine, can I still take option (n) DISENGAGE and get one more MA point? It would end up being that the one chasing gets to engage if winning the initiative however, yes?

Is there something in the works or in someone's HRs for a sprinting roll to temporarily add some MA?

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

Classic Adv Melee page 3 makes it clear that you can only step then disengage, no half or full move. (This is less clear in Legacy, but still you get no action (such as Disengage) after moving more than 1/2 MA.)

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

I see what you mean by the wording, but does this then mean a character can't defend or attack after moving up to half MA when originally Disengaged?

Scenario 1:
A character moves half MA to engage one enemy originally intending to attack, but during the movement phase another enemy charges him with a polearm. The player is allowed to change options per p.102 in the Start of List of Options.

Scenario 2:
A character moves half MA during the movement phase but is not engaged after that character's movement - initial choice is the option to Dodge. In the same turn's movement phase an enemy engages. By exact wording, the character didn't shift or stand still so cannot choose to attack or defend.

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

And there's the conundrum! According to the rules, we can't use Dodge if engaged, and yet one can becomes engaged after declaring Dodge. This is why SJ had to add the rule that one could always change options to meet changing conditions as long as you hadn't moved too far for the new option (added between the first edition of Melee and the first edition of Wizard), although his great and clear paragraph about that got left out of Legacy ITL -- surely by accident.

Actually you can take Attack or Defend upon moving 1/2 MA, you just can't move more than 1/2 MA.

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

Good to know (even the history of it). But are the options limited to attack and defend only (with the half movement) or are there options players can choose for a full movement?

I've never used full MA except to maneuver behind an opponent.

ya know 'never retreat, never surrender' and be sure to save the game before the big battle so you can reload at that point.

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

Full movement (over half) toward your foe has some great tactical uses. Here are some:

- to engage a foe carrying a pole arm that has gone over half MA. Thus preventing him from charging next turn.

- to close the distance with a very high DX archer that is likely to hit you even when you dodge. At full MA, you will give him half as many chances to put arrows in you.

- to engage an archer that shoots twice a turn. This way he will not get his second shot.

Re: [Combat Question] When are you considered to be engaged in melee?
 

Engaging the archers is a good use of full MA. Sometimes, with respect to an entire PC group, it simply helps to engage one of your foes which limits his options while ensuring more options available for your friends. The tank of the group usually does that.