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-   -   In Gurps, how powerful do you need to fight a tank? (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=192547)

Anthony 08-15-2023 08:52 PM
Re: In Gurps, how powerful do you need to fight a tank?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bathawk (Post 2498802)
What's the minimum to be a threat?
A normal human with an ATGM or various improvised explosives?

Bathawk 08-15-2023 08:55 PM
Re: In Gurps, how powerful do you need to fight a tank?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTTG (Post 2498511)
While more than a bit of a crock, don't forget you could get up to [-80%] for "Limitation: Only defends from/harms one specific tank."

Generally having an ability which only can be used against tanks in general is not likely to be worth more than -10% in a campaign where you fight a lot of tanks, but might be worth a bit more in a campaign where you live in classical Rome at the height of the Republic.
That reminds me of a character form the "godlike" rpg. a nazi named "Herakles". He had assumed he was a super strong brick, but his super strength was only for destroying things (punching, kicking, biting ect;)....and is invulnerability was only to tanks. whether it was a cannon, being machine gunned, run over, or a tank falling on him from a cliff.

I always wondered, because in WW II DR/Damage reduction "only to tanks" would be -40%, but in peace time it would have to be at least -80%. I can't even remember the last time I saw a tank in real life, much less been threatened by one (wonder if his charcater would get a rebate on points post war)

Fred Brackin 08-15-2023 09:38 PM
Re: In Gurps, how powerful do you need to fight a tank?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bathawk (Post 2498802)
So as the thread is winding down, forget having to "one punch" a tank. Assuming enough defense to withstand a tank, what is the minimum you need to fight one? wether it's bending barrels, tearing off tracks or dislodging turrets? What's the minimum to be a threat?
The turret on a T-72 ought to weigh c. 30,000 lbs and you'd need to have a ST of c.140 to lift that over your head.

The question about tracks is quite difficult being rather specialized information. In the detailed specs in Ve2 the tracks were dR30 and had 1200 HP in total but hat was 3e and the HP calculation was different. The DR 30 should be the same. What you'd need to find out would be the 4e HP of the tread links and then roll v. DR + HP.

The easiest way to attack the tank is to rip off the hatches and reach in and go to work on the crew. ST 50 might do for that.

Anthony 08-15-2023 09:56 PM
Re: In Gurps, how powerful do you need to fight a tank?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin (Post 2498808)
The easiest way to attack the tank is to rip off the hatches and reach in and go to work on the crew. ST 50 might do for that.
I doubt the turret motors are strong enough to overcome ST 50, so if you can get up next to it there's not a lot it can do unless someone inside pops the hatch to try to use a MG or something.

Ulzgoroth 08-15-2023 10:04 PM
Re: In Gurps, how powerful do you need to fight a tank?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2498809)
I doubt the turret motors are strong enough to overcome ST 50, so if you can get up next to it there's not a lot it can do unless someone inside pops the hatch to try to use a MG or something.
If you're in a position to outmuscle the turret motors, do you even need to? What's it going to do to you?

Bathawk 08-15-2023 10:25 PM
Re: In Gurps, how powerful do you need to fight a tank?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin (Post 2498808)
The turret on a T-72 ought to weigh c. 30,000 lbs and you'd need to have a ST of c.140 to lift that over your head.

The question about tracks is quite difficult being rather specialized information. In the detailed specs in Ve2 the tracks were dR30 and had 1200 HP in total but hat was 3e and the HP calculation was different. The DR 30 should be the same. What you'd need to find out would be the 4e HP of the tread links and then roll v. DR + HP.

The easiest way to attack the tank is to rip off the hatches and reach in and go to work on the crew. ST 50 might do for that.
But that's for the actual track "plate" right (the part that touches the ground) What if your just tearing the treadplates off the motorized link?

Fred Brackin 08-15-2023 10:47 PM
Re: In Gurps, how powerful do you need to fight a tank?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bathawk (Post 2498814)
But that's for the actual track "plate" right (the part that touches the ground) What if your just tearing the treadplates off the motorized link?
No. I was talking about breaking the links and then pulling the whole track off but I don't know how strong each link in the tracks is. Since the tracks on an Abrahms transmit 1500 horsepower to the ground it might be pretty strong. You've asked a question that depends on very specialized knowledge that I don't have.

It's not going to be easier than busting open the hatches and yanking the crew out. That's probably your minimal answer.

sir_pudding 08-16-2023 04:16 AM
Re: In Gurps, how powerful do you need to fight a tank?
 
Purely game mechanically damage to the tracks in excess of HP/2 disables them, per the vehicle hit location table.

Anaraxes 08-16-2023 09:51 AM
Re: In Gurps, how powerful do you need to fight a tank?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bathawk (Post 2498814)
But that's for the actual track "plate" right (the part that touches the ground) What if your just tearing the treadplates off the motorized link?
The diameter of the steel pin holding track shoes together on the Abrams is 1.374 inches. If you can bend or break that, you can get an "M-kill" on the tank. (If the tank moves with "only" a bent track, it'll likely just tear its own track off.)

Such a bar has DR 30 and HP 60, per the tables on B558.

Supers rules for bending bars make it a Quick Contest of ST versus the higher of the object's HP or HT; DR subtracts from ST before the Contest. So, Lifting ST 90 gives you a 50-50 shot at breaking a track. That's ST 20 + 9 (Super-Effort). ST 20+10 gives you a value of 120, so 90 vs 60, guaranteed other than crits.

Breaking a tooth or three off the drive sprocket would be similar, as the teeth are individually about that same size. They poke between the gaps in the track shoes, so I wouldn't think they'd be particularly easy to get a hold on. But if you're imagining just grabbing the edge of the track and pulling it outward, you don't really care which part breaks.

Tracks are typically tensioned with a force equal to around 10% of the weight of the tank. They're not stretchy or loose (or at least they're not supposed to be), so you can't just slip the track off the wheels without physically breaking the track --or loosening the idler wheel so you can get the tension off the track with enough slack to just lift it over the retaining edge or sprocket teeth. Breaking a drive/idler/road wheel or axle would be harder than just breaking the track.

whswhs 08-16-2023 10:15 AM
Re: In Gurps, how powerful do you need to fight a tank?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes (Post 2498868)
The diameter of the steel pin holding track shoes together on the Abrams is 1.374 inches. If you can bend or break that, you can get an "M-kill" on the tank. (If the tank moves with "only" a bent track, it'll likely just tear its own track off.)

Such a bar has DR 30 and HP 60, per the tables on B558.

Supers rules for bending bars make it a Quick Contest of ST versus the higher of the object's HP or HT; DR subtracts from ST before the Contest. So, Lifting ST 90 gives you a 50-50 shot at breaking a track. That's ST 20 + 9 (Super-Effort). ST 20+10 gives you a value of 120, so 90 vs 60, guaranteed other than crits.

Breaking a tooth or three off the drive sprocket would be similar, as the teeth are individually about that same size. They poke between the gaps in the track shoes, so I wouldn't think they'd be particularly easy to get a hold on. But if you're imagining just grabbing the edge of the track and pulling it outward, you don't really care which part breaks.

Tracks are typically tensioned with a force equal to around 10% of the weight of the tank. They're not stretchy or loose (or at least they're not supposed to be), so you can't just slip the track off the wheels without physically breaking the track --or loosening the idler wheel so you can get the tension off the track with enough slack to just lift it over the retaining edge or sprocket teeth. Breaking a drive/idler/road wheel or axle would be harder than just breaking the track.
That is just a really cool bit of analysis.


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