Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

I mean, that's correct too. You can't force somebody to let you go without some actual tools for that purpose. The point of the backing away is to give them an opportunity and incentive to not keep pushing.
It comes apart if there's a second attack that comes after your Wait has triggered and takes you in the back, but if you're sure there won't be it does seem to have potential.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

Mearls' involvement with D&D post-dates D&D3's publication, and even v3.5 doesn't have him in the credits. The fault for the initial emphasis on dungeons, and on DM rulings over morale checks lies elsewhere.

That Mearls is/was entirely okay with this, and ran with it, I do not doubt.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

Thank you for clarifying. As you can tell, I was confused. ^^'

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

I don't think Step includes turning. I mentioned movement pts originally because in the most rigorous form of mapped combat for Gurps every hex of Ground Move becomes 1 "Movement pt" and you have to spend 1 MP for every hexside of facing change.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

"You may always turn to face a different direction as part of any step (or as the step, if you just want to change your facing)"
B368

See also "the step in tactical combat" on B386.

I've seen the not understanding that a step is not 1 point of regular movement before, but I don't quite understand why it happens.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

B386, the box labeled "The "Step" in Tactical Combat," states that you can change facing freely as part of a Step. Looking at the rules, absent being able to take advantage of the free facing change from a Step, probably the best way to retreat is to spend 1 movement point to change facing to the foe's front-left or front-right (rather than front-center) hex, then 1 movement point to move into your new front-left or front-right (whichever is further from the foe) hex, which automatically changes your facing a second time, and then run in a straight line. This basically only burns up 1 movement point to turn away from the foe, rather than needing to burn three to turn in place (it also means if they had a Wait or similar you were unaware of that you moving away triggered, they're attacking your Side hex, not your Back).

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

As a GM I would rule that this "free" Facing change is only 1 hexside.

On p.387 there are 2 instances where it is explicit that you can face _any_ Hex. When you take a Move action and spend no more than half your MPs or when you take All out Defense(Increased Dodge).

The AoD(Dodge) might help as it allows you to change Facing on your Active Defense rather than your regular Turn. So on your opponent's Turn you AoD(Dodge and Retreat and get your Facing change in. then on your Turn you run for all your worth.

<shrug>It is no doubt subject to criticism as a way to effectively Move when it's not your Turn and string Turns worth of actions together.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

For whatever it's worth, even the Gold Box CRPGs from the 1980s, which did have morale checks and occasional fleeing monsters, were still tuned to be 95%+ fights to the death.

Obviously CRPGs are not TTRPGs, but hack and slash TTRPGing and CRPGing are close cousins.

Note that in DFRPG Kromm wrote the rule more explicitly:

Most maneuvers allow you to take a step. This lets you do one of the following: • Stay where you are! • Move one hex in any direction. • Go from a kneeling posture to a standing one (or vice versa) without moving. You may also turn to face any of the six hexes surrounding yours, before or after you move or change posture. -DF Exploits pg. 33

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

It wouldn't be the first time Kromm changed a rule between straight Gurps and DFRPG. I find the text in Campaigns clear enough. when it wanted to say "any" facing it did.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

"You may change facing freely before or after you move." pretty clearly lets you turn as many times as you want. If you could only turn once that wouldn't be 'freely'.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

It also seems to be pretty clear when you can only change facing by one hex side, such as on a Retreat (which is probably the best opener to disengaging - Retreat and change Facing by one hex side, then change it by another hex side in the process of moving into the side-front hex furthest from the foe, and run away from there - no loss of movement points to turning, so unless the foe is faster than you, they won't be able to catch up; and it kinda makes a degree of sense to take advantage of the momentary opening when someone tries to attack you to take off running). The only thing that isn't 100%, no question, clear seems to be Step, where it simply says you can change facing "freely" rather than spelling out that it only allows for a one hex-side change or allows for changing to any desired facing. I personally interpret it as the latter, but I could potentially see cause for the former (treating the explicit call-out to only getting to change facing by one hex-side on a Retreat as a reminder of how the facing change normally works on a Step, rather than an exception to how facing change normally works on a Step).

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

If you could change facing multiple times it wouldn't "before _or_ after". It'd be "before _and_ after".

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

Suppose hypothetically I declare a Wait: "after I retreat, Attack whoever just attacked me, then step away and turn to face directly away." Which of these scenarios can happen?

1.) My opponent and I start 1 yard away from each other with broadswords (reach 1 yard). He attacks me with a Rapid Strike. I retreat to two yards away but still get to attack him because of the Retreat. I then move back to 3 yards. He cannot attack me when I'm three yards away but he can step forward and finish his Rapid Strike against me from two yards away, because one yard of that came from Retreat. He must use his step or lose his second attack. His second attack counts as a runaround attack because he didn't start his turn to my rear.

2.) As #1 but I cannot attack him from 2 yards. I lose my attack.

3.) As #1 but he cannot finish his Rapid Strike against me even if he steps forward. He loses his second attack because I'm out of reach.

4.) As #1 but his second attack from two yards away counts as a rear attack (no defense) and not a runaround.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

Right, my bad. I distinctly remember him from the 3.5 era because of his "so-so" supplements (and "orc and pie"), and then he was the Lead Designer on 4e (where his motto was "back to the dungeon!").



I agree with 1, it feels weird, but that' s just the way "simultaneous" turns sometimes play out.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

It depends a lot on what sort of game you're in. If it's mainly firearms, you may well be taken out of the fight by a single hit. It can sometime be possible to optimise for survival at fairly low cost with a bit of Hard to Kill and an extra hit point or two.

In the occult WWII campaign, the highest-damage attack I seemed likely to be in receipt of was 7d+1 from German rifles and LMGs. That's 25.5 average damage, with a death check on reaching -1*HP. Having 12 HP, which I'd started with, was clearly a bad idea, since I'd expect to make a death check on a single hit. Having 13 HP was much better: over a 50% chance of avoiding a death check. Getting hit several times would be deadly, of course.

In over 150 sessions of that campaign, the only character who got killed in action died of his own Impulsiveness. He'd been hit once, survived a death check, and was in decent cover. However, he could not resist putting his head up to try another shot, caught another bullet and died.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

Honestly, the first rule is "if the fight looks both dangerous and avoidable, avoid it". Definitions of avoidable can be pretty broad, though -- if you're likely to conflict with the other party but not necessarily right now, you want to evaluate whether delaying the conflict is more useful to you or them. Obviously, the other side wants to do the same thing.

In terms of personal hit points, you probably don't want to take point when seriously injured, but whether you want to retreat is largely dependent on how the battle as a whole is going, because it's generally better to have an organized retreat than fleeing piecemeal. This can mean retreating when entirely uninjured, or continuing to fight when seriously wounded.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

You were having a conversation about number of hex-sides, why do you assume the topic suddenly changed?

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

Sorry, don't understand what you mean.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

The argument was about the fact that the rules let you turn any number of hex-sides with a step, not only the one you argued for. And then you suddenly started reading it as being about whether you could turn both before and after the movement instead, which is both an implausible change of topic and almost meaningless.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

[QUOTE=Ulzgoroth;2498081 then you suddenly started reading it as being about whether you could turn both before and after the movement instead, [/QUOTE]

You have misread me. I was countering Anthony's choice to read "freely" as not only language with a technical meaning but the technical meaning that supported his interpretation. I offered different language that could be read as supporting my position as an example of possible overinterpretation..

As a general rule I do not believe that every word in a passage should be squeezed like a wine grape to get any possible rules information out of it. If the rules want to make something clear they will say so directly rather than leave it tot he reader to discover any and every possible hidden implication.

So there are two places where the rules make "_any_facing" clear and explicit. In cases were they do not do so I read "facing change" to be one hexside by default.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

Honestly, I agree it's unclearly written, I just believe it's the original intent. I'm fairly sure it allowed turning to any facing in 3e, which likely influenced my opinion, but I can't currently find my GURPS 3e.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

Maybe I'm in a slightly different camp. I don't see it as being unclear and I don't see that the existence of more explicit descriptions in some places adjusts the intent of those with less explicit detail. The extra detail can be provided because it's considered necessary in some places and not in others.

My reading of it is that you can face any direction because "facing change" is not defined anywhere to be a single change, and a quick reality check says that it's extremely quick and easy to pivot up to 180 degrees either left or right, so there's no apparent physical limitation to overcome to achieve this.

At any rate, I play/GM to allow the change of facing and it's never seemed broken. To not allow it would, however, seem an unreasonable restriction in most cases.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

On the other hand, stepping back, spinning around (or spinning around and then stepping forward, or spinning during a step to what started as your rear, and then striking a foe who was previously behind you, is much more involved than just stepping forward and striking a foe in front of you, or even stepping diagonally-forward with a 60-degree shift in facing to strike a foe over there. Now, I'd be more inclined under such an interpretation to give the attack a penalty when you need to spin around (probably the same -2 as for a pop-up attack, which this is similar to - you start your turn unable to properly see the foe) than to only allow for one facing change, but I could see other ways to handle it. A harsh GM might want to treat such an attack is something akin to a Wild Swing, so would call for the character to use a Move and Attack to get enough movement points to actually be able to turn all the way around - or an All Out Attack for a similar purpose (but sacrificing defenses to be able to turn and strike without penalty). Or maybe let a Step allow for changing facing by 2 sides if you don't move - which will let you hit anyone (although they may be in a front-side rather than front-center hex) if you aren't moving, or call for a Committed Attack to get an extra Step to be able to Step back and turn all the way around in one go.

I do think the RAI is that a Step allows you to change as many hex-sides as needed, however.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

I'm not sure spinning around is always needed or that hard. There seems to sometimes be an assumption that characters are standing with their two feet together and so need to "step around" to face the other way. If you have one foot forward and one back (which you generally do after making a step), then you only need to pivot on your feet, which really takes next to no time, and stepping backwards is a fluid movement of taking the step and pivoting on the back foot. It doesn't need to be (and generally shouldn't be) two separate movements.

By all means apply a pop-up penalty to an attack if you couldn't have seen it before you turned (unless characters have some advantage to mitigate, of course), but outside of that, there's no practical reason nor rule to say you shouldn't be able to end up on any facing.

Re: How to avoid killing your player characters as GM
 

Something I found useful is to compare the typical weapons of the day to a bystander "typical" human of ST10, 10 HP, 0 DR. To such a person, three hits of a ST10 quarterstaff can reduce to 0 (1d6 cr), or one fine longbow arrow (1d6+2 imp) , to say nothing of firearms. THe simple answer is don't get involved in a battle.

If you are looking for survivable gunfights consider GURPS Gun-Fu's "Dodging Bullets" and "Bullet Time" on p.32. Consider "Buying Success" p. B347 to turn rolls such as Dodges from failures to success, or lots of Luck (or Super Luck), Serendipity to find conveniently sufficient Cover (consider Perks in Gun-fu related to this as well).