Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

While working on my GURPS-adaptation of the Cyberpunk+Elves game I ran into the question whether the Conjurable spirits should be Minions, Unwilling or both.

I like the idea that you have a strong hold over them (the magical bond) which would fit Unwilling.

On the other hand I would hate to need to roll whether the "Ally" rebels every time he's ordered to do something dangerous... So Minion does make sense.

How would Minion and Unwilling interact? RAW they don't seem to be mutually exclusive but from how I read them they should...

While typing this, I went back and re-read the Dungeon Fantasy Summoners definition of Conjurable. I think I just found my "Middle Ground". There it states that a reaction roll is necessary with every summoning to see how the Spirit reacts.
The question now is how to 'accumulate' the 'reputation in the spirit world' that would impact that reaction roll.

Ok to phrase the two questions more explicitly:

1. How do Minion and Unwilling interact?
2. How would you suggest to build a ever-changing 'reputation in the spirit world'

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

Minion means obeying your orders without question, regard for oneself, etc. Unwilling means they'll try to twist your orders into what they want to do (so long as they can get away with it) and a willingness to outright rebel and stop being an Ally if you give an order where the consequences of following it are worse than those of not doing so. I'd say they're mutually exclusive; at best, I could see a novel +0% modifier that sort-of combines them by giving you an ally who is unreliable similarly to Unwilling but will never cease being an Ally regardless of what orders you give, similarly to Minion.

If your reputation changes at random, I'd say that's basically built into the process of rolling a Reaction Roll. Otherwise, this is basically just Reputation, limited to only apply to those from the spirit world - it's up to the GM if that's a Small Group (1/3 cost), Large Group (1/2 cost), everyone but some Large Group (2/3 cost), or Almost Everyone (full cost); similarly the GM and/or player will need to decide how frequently the character is recognized.

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

My sentiment exactly. Wanted to make sure that I didn't miss anything.

hmmm... not changing randomly.
Good question about group size... I was just tempted to put -20% "Spirits only" on the 'Almost everyone' x1 variant. But I guess that would not be as intended. (^ö^)
So Large class of people (all Spirits) would be best.

Recognition would be immediate when perceiving the aura of the mage. So All the time: x1 seems appropriate.

However reputation would change significantly faster / more often than a 'normal' reputation would. Word of mouth spreads fast in the spirit world.... How would I price this in? The rep could quickly go from negative to positive or vice versa... Maybe within the scope of a single adventure. Several times within the scope of a campaign definitely.

Alternatively I could make spirits summoned by hermetic mages "Unwilling" while shaman-conjured spirits are not?

I have the "number of services owed" mechanism in place anyway... hmmm just think out loud (~_~)

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

An unwilling minion ally will never leave if you treat it poorly, but will subvert your orders if given the opportunity. If you order it to defend you in combat, it might defend you while deliberately making the situation worse for you and your allies. If ordered to defend you and your allies in combat, it might make every reasonable effort to defend your least vulnerable ally, and switch which ally it defends in order to maximize the enemy's opportunity to backstab people.

You'd have to be very specific with your orders for an unwilling minion, but there's no reason for the two modifiers to be exclusive. I can easily see the classic genie as an unwilling minion - you could order it on a suicide mission, but the results are likely to be unhappy unless your order is very specific.

Unwilling minions with Slave Mentality are a bit weirder, but I think you end up with an ally that maliciously works to the rule and uses any ambiguities in your orders against you. It's actually more survivable than an unwilling minion without Slave mentality.

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

And now we see how to write up a Fae that gets caught in a contract with a mortal.

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

Given that Minion mentions "+0% if the Minion has IQ 0 or Slave Mentality (p. 154), as the benefits of total loyalty are offset by the need for close supervision", having minions who are hostile to you seems perfectly possible as a similar 0% or possibly worse. However, I'd call that "hostile" rather than "unwilling", as the unwilling limitation seems to only apply to allies who do your commands out of a fear of punishment, rather than supernaturally compelled creatures.

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

Demona: If you can't get rid of all the humans, then at least rid me of that Human! Elisa Maza!
Puck: Did you say "that Human" or "that Human"? Oh, never mind, I'll figure it out. This just might be fun, after all.

On the other hand, given Puck's power, it's probably better to model him as an Enemy with Quirk: Likes to let mortals think they're winning.

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

Ok, getting this back on track.

So as for question 1:
Minion and Unwilling have in common
I don't need to treat my ally well.


What does each add to the common part

• Unwilling adds the "hate" part where the ally will try to undermine my every plan up to the points of outright rebellion.
• What does Minion add? Mental breakdowns? I guess the "but the Ally will not leave" is the main point.

Minion explicitly names fear as one possible reason for the ally staying loyal...
so even from a roleplaying perspective the two need not be different. Yes, they COULD be played differently depending on the exact circumstances, but they need not be.

Conclusion / Answer:
An ally with Unwilling plus Minion need not be treated well. and will never leave. He will try to undermine my goals though. The main part of an Ally, namely "An NPC Ally, on the other hand, is wholly reliable" is given up.

Now on to question 2.

...

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

As a way of thinking about this: how do you build an ever-changing bank account in gurps?



If the value is going to change drastically from moment to moment, it probably shouldn't be tracked with points. The two things worth charging points are:

1. Is it an advantage that he has a reputation at all? That would be some sort of Spirit Empathy.
2. Is the resting or average expected reputation positive? That would be some sort of reputation or charisma.

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

On the third hand...

OP said that the reputation kicks in when Mage's aura is seen (by the Spirits I assume)? How would that interact when another Mage casts the Aura spell on him? Or a Mage running Mage Sight sees him? What about other types of people with 'Magically Sensitive' kinds of advantages?

FREX a race similar to Melnabonians (in a campaign I was a player in) received all kinds of -1 to -2 level reactions from the Magically Sensitive or 'normal' Mages.

Apparently a race intrinsically tied to Gods of Primal Chaos have a reputation for 'not playing well with others.' Particularly more Ordered, stable sorts.

Who knew? (I did I was getting (small) points for the disads)

Anyhoo that could shade his Reaction Rolls with non Spirits who have the right kind of 'Special' senses. Might be something to figure in if a Reputation package will be put together...

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

This all goes under section #2, I think. get the modifiers on the reputation/charisma/social stigma/social status right and everything else will follow.

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

The same way you build an ever-changing reputation in the material world. Buy the Rep with character points. Buy more when you've done stuff that makes it go up. Depending on your table's philosophy, get points back when it goes down, or else just write those off as any other Disad gained in play.

If you want the Reputation to be random -- every spirit has not just a random reaction roll, but a random modifier to that, see the answer below.

As above, buy Wealth, change the Wealth level as necessary.

But to get to the rapidly-varying random value of Wealth from transaction to transaction, without modifying the CP totals or character sheet, then: Buy the level that matches the expected value of the possible Wealth values. That is, the "average" in statistical terms. The values are weighted by their frequency of occurrence, not necessarily all equal. Sometimes your "what's my Wealth" roll makes you wealthy, sometimes poor, but it averages out to some value; that's the value you would pay for.

You could use the same principle for randomly varying power levels of levelled Advantages, attacks, and so on.

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

Care needs to be taken with minions, in case they morph into enthusiastic yet incompetent minions.

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

The kind that turns yellow and wears glasses? \(OoO)/

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

Banana smoothie

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

\(OoO)/


P.S.: Please delete if you consider this spam ... are Minions vegetarian? Then they wouldn't eat spam, just bananas
(any Brits here that remember what spam used to mean?)

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

What if they are bound to be a minion by CoH? In the past the fine print of hostage exchange often assumed that a hostage had to fight for the host/captor.

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

That's the classic imp familiar, or other kinds of binded demons. They'll obey because your binding spell forces them to, but they'll do everything in their power to make your life miserable and enact vengeance in your presumptuous hide.

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

If the Spirit Reputation is random, throw 1 dice. If it's 1, 2 or 3, it's a bonus. If it's 4, 5, 6, a penalty (or flip a coin). Throw another dice. That will be the bonus or penalty the player will have with that one interaction with that one spirit.

If it's not random, you keep tabs for all kinds of spirits, just like normal reputation, with the difference being that this reputation will be more like in a videogame, where if the guards of a city see you robbing something in a city, even if you immediately teleport to another town, the guards know.

It will be printed in your aura, so you wont be able to hide your Reputation.

Also, it is recognizable all the time.

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

In Librarian: Curse of the Judas Chalice, vampirism works like an addiction. Several times in the movie we see Simone making a "Will Roll" to resist her nature. Presumably less virtuous vampires succumb.

Re: Allies: Minion vs. Unwilling
 

Assuming equal chances of getting a particular level of good or bad reaction:

Total dis/advantage cost = Cost of the best Good Reputation possible + Cost of the worst Bad Reputation possible.

Slap a -5% or -10% Nuisance Effect on it to represent the uncertainty element.

If final cost works out to 0 points, treat it as a Quirk.

Otherwise, you have to weight the likelihood of any given level of good/bad Reputation occurring, as Anaraxes suggested.