Steve Jackson Games Forums

Steve Jackson Games Forums (https://forums.sjgames.com/index.php)
-   Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game (https://forums.sjgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=95)
-   -   Artifacts of Legend: Coming to Kickstarter May 25 (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=190954)

DouglasCole 06-09-2023 07:04 PM

Re: Artifacts of Legend: Coming to Kickstarter May 25
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sjmdw45 (Post 2489154)
What's the connection here between system conversions and new art? When I think "old school" I think black and white, simple art. I just picked up GURPS: Orcslayer today and I'm loving all the sidebars and sketches and maps, all in black and white.

DFRPG is a color line. Doing B/W is a step down In production values from everything else I do/have done for DFRPG.

sjmdw45 06-09-2023 07:37 PM

Re: Artifacts of Legend: Coming to Kickstarter May 25
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasCole (Post 2489160)
DFRPG is a color line. Doing B/W is a step down In production values from everything else I do/have done for DFRPG.

Oh, interesting! I see that SJG's black-and-white stuff is apparently all in GURPS DF, not DFRPG, as well. Never even noticed that before, thanks.

I can see how that would make publishing DFRPG stuff harder, for sure.

DouglasCole 06-10-2023 10:21 AM

Re: Artifacts of Legend: Coming to Kickstarter May 25
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sjmdw45 (Post 2489162)
Oh, interesting! I see that SJG's black-and-white stuff is apparently all in GURPS DF, not DFRPG, as well. Never even noticed that before, thanks.

I can see how that would make publishing DFRPG stuff harder, for sure.

Higher production values means higher backer counts (or prices) to cover development costs. If I had the backers, you'd just see me doing more and ore of it. If I could do ONLY the DFRPG (and Mission X when it comes) and broaden the scope of the setting beyond Nordlond (which if you've seen my Infinite Archipelago concept I'm rolling out this year, is in the plan), I'd just poke folks to do more and more.

I love publishing for the DFPRG and GURPS. It's what I'd love be able to just do. I don't regret doing it, and I don't regret making beautiful, full color books.

I just need to have enough interest in them so I can afford to keep doing it, and I haven't nailed down what this subset of the market wants. And there are few enough in it currently that I can't guess wrong without having to make up that miss somewhere else.

sjmdw45 06-10-2023 11:07 AM

Re: Artifacts of Legend: Coming to Kickstarter May 25
 
I'm of two minds on the subject. For bestiaries, it makes sense to me to prioritize art: I think I've gotten value out of the art in Nordlond Bestiary for helping me visualize and describe certain creatures. And I sure wish I had a picture of a DFRPG ciuacla. I always look at the picture of the flesh golem with the hook hands on the same page instead--it mixes me up. Edit: oh, this one is fantastic. https://images.app.goo.gl/hiaF9CDBddz4rDkN6 So THAT'S what a vaguely feminine skeleton looks like!

But for adventures I care about layout and ideas. I truly could not care less about color. I'm prepping to run Hydra Island later today (Dungeon Fantasy Companion 3), and of the three art pieces in it, pg 137, 140, and 143, the map on pg 143 is the only one useful to me, and it would be just as useful in black and white instead of black and purple. I can imagine useful art (Sir Sacnoth defending Frog Mother might be a useful thing to show the players a drawing of) but even that is way down my priority list, and two full color pictures of random lizardmen is just a waste of space.

Orcslayer on the other hand is exactly what I want: dense text, lots of thoughtful sidebars on how to run the game, both from a rules perspective and NPC details.

mburr0003 06-11-2023 04:37 PM

Re: Artifacts of Legend: Coming to Kickstarter May 25
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasCole (Post 2489104)
The answer to the above is "that's only half the question." Each thing I repeated, and each thing has done well AND poorly.

Ooph. I was hoping for a better, clearer pattern, but there isn't one.

And wow, Dungeon Grappling did really poorly... that's one I'd hoped would have done better, those are the sorts of publications I prefer, rules supplements. But it is wrestling and it was for D&D, and those two don't exactly mix like peanut butter and chocolate among the D&D fans (which would strike me as being a bonus since D&D does wrestling so poorly, but eh, clearly I have no idea what I'm talking about).

I know you didn't do a KS for it, but how has Fantastic Dungeon Grappling done for you (compared to Dungeon Grappling and Technical Grappling)? Do you have any solid figures on that or even a gut feeling?



Quote:

Originally Posted by sjmdw45 (Post 2489208)
But for adventures I care about layout and ideas.

Heh, inversely (just to show what Doug has mentioned) for me I look for plot and ideas. I'll very often change a layout, toss stats, and change the loot. So while layout can inspire, it's usually gonna all be redrawn, so even sketchy maps work fine for my purposes.

Quote:

Orcslayer on the other hand is exactly what I want: dense text, lots of thoughtful sidebars on how to run the game, both from a rules perspective and NPC details.
Orcslayer is a very good adventure. I'd also go with B&W images over colour, but then I'm hella old school for B&W images.

DouglasCole 06-11-2023 05:17 PM

Re: Artifacts of Legend: Coming to Kickstarter May 25
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mburr0003 (Post 2489349)
And wow, Dungeon Grappling did really poorly.

My first-ever kickstarter. I was quite pleased with the results. It’s probably my best selling book overall.

It's sold 702 copies on DriveThru, 481 on various KS and Backerkits, and more here and there on my own sales channels (I used to do fairly well with it on my old web store, but that data was lost when I moved to Shopify)


Quote:

I know you didn't do a KS for it, but how has Fantastic Dungeon Grappling done for you (compared to Dungeon Grappling and Technical Grappling)? Do you have any solid figures on that or even a gut feeling?
FDG has done pretty well I think. If nothing else, it went into every copy of the reprinted Box Set for DFRPG, which ain't nothing.

It's moved 186 units on DriveThru; a bunch more on Warehouse23 (that number used to be easy to get; it's not anymore, and nothing to do with the Shopify move).

On various KS it's done 553.

So well over 700 units sold independently, and probably 2,200 or more in folks' hands I'd wager.

sjmdw45 06-11-2023 06:36 PM

Re: Artifacts of Legend: Coming to Kickstarter May 25
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mburr0003 (Post 2489349)
Heh, inversely (just to show what Doug has mentioned) for me I look for plot and ideas. I'll very often change a layout, toss stats, and change the loot. So while layout can inspire, it's usually gonna all be redrawn, so even sketchy maps work fine for my purposes.

I consider plot or scenario structure part of "ideas", although conveying that structure to the GM efficiently and clearly is part of "layout". I don't necessarily care that much about detailed maps (sketchy can be fine[1]) so perhaps we don't disagree?

A good layout in the sense that I'm using it means the product is cognitively simple to consume and lets me run the adventure directly from the text, without having to copy it somewhere else first and label all the maps/move monster stats into my notes for a given encounter/etc.

Orcslayer has a good layout in most ways: relevant info for NPCs is in short sidebars; organization of scenarios and interludes is clear, and I don't have to hunt around to find key information like "what do I do if the PCs lose this scenario?"

One layout nitpick I have from reading it is that Peredur Orcslayer isn't introduced until a couple of pages after his henchmen are introduced, instead of on page one, but in context it's reasonably clear anyway that "Lord Peredur" is their boss and the local ruler so that doesn't hurt the adventure much.

Because Orcslayer is very linear (though not railroadey), there's no need for a diagram or anything to describe the scenario structure. It's just "move from one chapter to the next, including Interludes where necessary." If the scenario were more complex the layout would need to be more sophisticated, but it's simple.

[1] For maps, maybe the thing I care about most is that the distances make sense instead dungeon encounters being implausibly close together without interacting in any way.

mburr0003 06-13-2023 08:17 PM

Re: Artifacts of Legend: Coming to Kickstarter May 25
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sjmdw45 (Post 2489365)
[1] For maps, maybe the thing I care about most is that the distances make sense instead dungeon encounters being implausibly close together without interacting in any way.

Ugh, yeah. Do not get me started on the "Five Room Dungeon" format/style. I despise it to the core of my bones.

DouglasCole 06-19-2023 05:41 PM

Re: Artifacts of Legend: Coming to Kickstarter May 25
 
Late Pledges are now Open for Artifacts of Legend

if you missed the Kickstarter, or just wanted to wait to make sure it funded, or any number of reasons ... you can come on board now with a late pledge on Backerkit.

DouglasCole 07-04-2023 11:17 AM

Re: Artifacts of Legend: Coming to Kickstarter May 25
 
Happy Unruly Colonists Day!

Here in MN, it's raining like crazy and the prognosticators expect this to continue off and on all day, with maximum chance of maximum thunderstorms right around the time we're supposed to set off explosives and stuff. Dang it.

Artifacts of Legend Pushed!
However, as a consolation prize for me, I pushed Artifacts of Legend u20230704 to Backerkit.

If you've completed your survey, you will find an email from Backerkit allowing you to navigate to and download the file.

You have completed the survey, right? (Ahem: for 40 folks the answer is "not yet, but I'm going to get right on that!")

This is a "penultimate" file, in that there are still hyperlinks to hyperlink but I always do that as the very, very last step, because it's tedious and manual and I don't want to do it twice.

Also, there's a chance that the proofers, playtesters, and I have missed a few typos or something, or that there's some mistake that needs fixing.

If you find something, please submit it on the Gaming Ballistic Errata page. Choose the correct file, and use the form to let me know there's an issue. It really is the best way for me to ensure that such matters are addressed properly.

Artifacts of Saga Thursday
I also have a complete version of Artifacts of Saga, but I want to wait until Thursday to push that one, as I would like a day or two to give it the same degree of final editing pass that Legends got. But definitely expect the book by the end of the week. There's one art tweak I'd like to make, and I'll make it if the artist gets back to me by then; it "should" be an easy fix, but Life Happens.

It's Not Too Late

Late pledges are still being accepted on Backerkit, at the same price and with the same options as the main campaign. They will remain open until it's time to place the manufacturing order ... so probably another 10 days or so.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.