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-   -   Two Weapon Fighting RAW conflicts? Or am I dumb? (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=189515)

Soylencer 03-21-2023 01:05 PM

Two Weapon Fighting RAW conflicts? Or am I dumb?
 
Hi I posted this on the Discord but figured there might be better, more dedicated reach here:

I found a set of curiosity regarding Two-Weapon fighting. I am omitting the implied exceptions given by the main-gauche, fencers, brawlers, and :octopus:, and am left with this set of presumed inconsistencies:

**The GM Screen** - DX +/-:
"[...]Weapon in each hand striking with both on the same turn: -4 on both attacks."

**ITL Talent Section** - Two Weapon [p.41]:
A) "[...] attack with both weapons, at normal DX for the first attack and -4 for the second one."
B) "However, a character who wants to fight with [two weapons] must have this talent." (emphasized as printed)

**ITL Advanced Melee** - Left Handed Weapons: [p.111]
"A person who does not have this talent [TW] may attempt the same feat, but his DX will be -6 for each attack."

So:
The GM screen contradicts the book explicitly in regards to the application of the penalty.
The Talent Section contradicts the combat section in regards to the attempt.
The Combat section contradicts both in regards to the application and severity of the penalty, *and* the ability to attempt.

I would normally defer to the book over the screen, but I am still left with the other issues. I think the Left Handed section is less of an issue in regards to the -6, or application on both attacks -- both of which are greater due to the lack of training, and is sensible -- the issue is in the exception this section introduces to the implied restriction in the Two Weapon section whereby the attempt is disallowed in the first place.

I am happy to assume the following based on what I assume is the RAI:
First, the GM screen is wrong, or combining both sets of instructions; being -4 on second attack when trained, and -6 on both when untrained. Second, that you *can* attempt this, and the wording in the Talent section was unintentionally restrictive, and that the Left Handed section fills in the gap in how it is meant to be applied.

Shostak 03-21-2023 01:49 PM

Re: Two Weapon Fighting RAW conflicts? Or am I dumb?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Soylencer (Post 2475552)

**The GM Screen** - DX +/-:
"[...]Weapon in each hand striking with both on the same turn: -4 on both attacks."

So far as I know, this is a misprint, though I don't think it is listed in the errata. However, -4 would be consistent with the standard 1d unskilled penalty described on ITL 8.

Quote:

**ITL Talent Section** - Two Weapon [p.41]:
A) "[...] attack with both weapons, at normal DX for the first attack and -4 for the second one."
B) "However, a character who wants to fight with [two weapons] must have this talent." (emphasized as printed)
Item A is consistent with Melee's approach to the main gauche, which is echoed in ITL 111. I'd accept this as correct.

I would ignore the requirement for the Two Weapons talent in item B because of the text from ITL below.

Quote:

**ITL Advanced Melee** - Left Handed Weapons: [p.111]
"A person who does not have this talent [TW] may attempt the same feat, but his DX will be -6 for each attack."
It is worth noting that an off-hand dagger is not treated the same as other weapons held in the off hand; there is a separate rule for off-hand daggers (first paragraph of ITL 111). Those who lack Two Weapons may make an off-hand dagger attack at -4DX after an attack with their main weapon in the other hand (no DX penalty). By contrast, a swordsman lacking the Two Weapons talent with a hatchet in his off hand attacking twice suffers -6DX on both.


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