Edge Protection rules?
 

I thought I remembered the "Edge Protection" rule being somewhere in the basic DF books, but I can't seem to find it now.

My group is abandoning D&D for reasons that don't need to be gone into here, and we are considering adopting DF as our go-to game in spite of its major flaw of downplaying the effectiveness of armour and heaping on tons and tons of dice of weapon damage, making armour not really worth troubling with.

That Edge Protection rule would mitigate this glaring error somewhat, but I can't seem to find it in the books.

Am I misremembering?

Re: Edge Protection rules?
 

Edge Protection optional rules come from the inexhaustible fount of game design creativity that is T-Bone's Games Diner: https://www.gamesdiner.com/edge-prot...-for-gurps-4e/

Re: Edge Protection rules?
 

Low Tech, p. 102. Box at the bottom of the page.

Re: Edge Protection rules?
 

Armor not worth troubling with? Dungeon Fantasy is based on GURPS. Although it is definitely cinematic, most characters really need armor! It is more lethal than D&D and there are no huge benefits for short rests and especially not for long rests!

I don't believe the Edge protection (as in from cutting weapons) you are looking for (as per GURPS Low-Tech is in DFRPG). Check the armor modifiers rules Adventurers, p110 for improving armor.

Improve skills to be more effective in wearing armor, using shields, making dodges and parries.

Also note that those who can make the big hits (at least PC wise) have spent a LOT of points on doing so buying up attacks and special abilities to do so. Maybe play with lower point values if this bothers you. Delvers to Grow (by Gaming Ballistic) sets starting limits I believe at 62 points (way to low for my taste), 125 points (slightly lower then general GURPS heroic 150 points, but in that range), and 187 expert level range.

I'd think 100-150 range would work well if you're looking for lower starting levels.

Re: Edge Protection rules?
 

Well, it depends.

There are scenarios where armor is fantastic: exploding Doomchildren, for example, or other large-area attacks and explosions of relatively low damage (3d6 / 3 * range). Dragons' breath weapons, Create Fire spells, fields of caltrops, and many traps also fall into this category. Ditto medium-strength enemies like orcs who target random hit locations instead of specifically the torso. A light segmented plate (DR 3) gauntlet can be the difference between losing 4 HP to a 6 cutting damage blow to the hand, vs. losing 5 HP and the hand. Plate mail boots can keep you from getting crippled by caltrops. Etc.

There are scenarios where armor doesn't matter: swashbucklers with high defenses supported by Luck and Bless when they go up against a Sword Saint or Giant Ape are going to be either fine or dead.

There are scenarios where armor is useful but not necessarily worth the loss of mobility and movement speed. That's pretty common in dungeons: if you wear DR 6 plate you'll be too slow to run away from Black Puddings, but you have a better chance against Horde Pygmies (especially if you've got a full helm that protects your face) and a better chance not to get your arms chopped off if you meet a peshkali who likes to go for the arms. But if you don't know which threat you're going to face, which do you pick?

The answer isn't obvious, but as a GM you should do your best to make players with no armor sometimes wish they had worn armor, and players who wear armor sometimes wish they had less encumbrance. Don't make it an easy question.

Re: Edge Protection rules?
 

My problem for balancing armor and opposition has been a Wrestler with Tough Skin 3 and a basic lift of 88 mixed with a very fragile bard and, when she's blindsided, Martial Artist.

Re: Edge Protection rules?
 

Problem in what sense? You quoted me, implying that you might be addressing my claim that you need to make sure armor-wearing is a dilemma for the players. But then why would you mention the "fragile" bard and the martial artist?

My original point was that you want an adventure to have elements that incentivize/reward armor (e.g. caltrops and horde pygmies), and also those that incentivize/reward keeping your encumbrance low and investing in things besides armor (e.g. crushrooms, flaming skulls, peshkalis, ramexes).

I'm not super familiar with Wrestler (I don't include DFC3 professions in my games) but it looks like you're just saying the Wrestler is tough against both kinds of threats and the bard and martial artist are fragile. If so, what's the problem? (From the GM perspective. Player problem is the same as always: approximately "how do we get the loot without dying?")

I just can't figure out why you quoted me. Seems unrelated.

Re: Edge Protection rules?
 

My point was that your solution is well and good but my bard wishes he had more armour with every single hit and the wrestler can get double digit dr with no encumbrance. Barbarian is similar, but not quite so extreme. This makes it difficult to balance encounters that will challenge the meatshields while not killing the fragile PCs. Since I don't want to kill characters, it's a gm problem too.

BTW, I use the Wrestler because it's a pregen in one of the Nordlond books.

Re: Edge Protection rules?
 

Yeah, that's an interesting problem (especially the last sentence, trying to take responsibility for character survival) although unrelated to my point.

Good monsters for your scenarios are things that bypass armor (flaming skulls, toxifiers, horde pygmies aiming for the face) or threaten more than just HP damage (jellies, wizards with mind control) or will attack the wrestler preferentially over the bard and martial artist (anything, depending on how good player tactics are, which is why the goal of keeping player characters alive is potentially frustrating for GMs--you're taking responsibility for survival without really having control over survival).