Orcs in Legacy
 

A question about Orcs. In Legacy Orcs are close to humans, in Middle Earth they started from evil Elves, Urak-Hai Orcs were Orc-Goblin breeds. So, should starting attributes be changed to reflect Middle Eart Orcs?

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

Our orcs are different and we love them for it. (Our elves, goblins, etc. are also different.)

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

Goblins and orcs are synonymous in Tolkein’s works.

I don’t use orcs in my games for the same reason that I don’t use halflings, elves, and dwarves: I want a game world more distinct from Middle Earth.

That said, if I were to play in Middle Earth, I’d model normal orcs on TFT goblins and Uruk-hai on TFT orcs, since my impression is that Uruk-hai were bred to be as large and as strong as a Men while normal orcs were most dangerous in numbers. This is a bit of an oversimplification—Tolkein’s orcs were far more capable than the Jackson films (especially The Hobbit) would have one believe.

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

Thanks! I like your take on Middle Earth. So, in your games, only humans and no fantasy characters?

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

Yes, in the game world I am currently using for TFT campaigns, only human PCs are allowed. There are, however, plenty of monsters and entities beyond the ken of humankind. It's a bit more like the world of Howard's Hyborean Age than it is Tolkein's Middle Earth, though magic is considerably less hidden than it is in either of those.

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

I figured it was the Hyborean Age or something based on GURPS Ancient Rome/Greece/Egypt or similar.

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

Er... not quite. I have a PC gargoyle in this Myriangia gameworld and we have had Dwarves.

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

I like the mythmaking of TFT Orcs.
ITL p 77: Orcs are closely related to men; their prehistoric ancestor, Orcanthropus, dominated many alternate worlds during Neanderthal days. (Here, on Earth, only their fossilized remains, known as Piltdown Man, survive.)

Crichton's Eaters of the Dead (set in Viking Lands) has vicious savages called Wendol who are suggested to be relict Neanderthals. The Wendol could be a variation of what Cidri Orcs are.

Wendol.....(Generic)..... 31 Attribute points
ST 13
DX 10 (9)
IQ 8
MA = 10....(9) Bearskin

BearSkin...(1).....Covering back, sides and head

BearClaw Mace =.....2d-1
Spear*=.................1d.....*thrown
Feathered Pilum*=... 1d-1
Spear Thrower=.......+2 damage & Missile Weapon
Torches =................1d-1 as club; 1d-2 as fire;


Language: Wendol (his own language)

• Talents Weapons: Axe/mace; Pole-Weapon; Spear Thrower
• Area Knowledge or Running, Horsemanship

Some of the smarter Wendols have

• Acute Hearing, Alertness, Silent Movement,
• Toughness, Tracking, Naturalist, Mundane Cook

The brightest might have

• Architect/Builder and build bridges; Physicker

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

Thanks! I love the movie "the 13th Warrior"!
Here's a link for 13th Warrior attributes: https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrF...XyjEfhj7Hpz7I-

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

Granite the gargoyle is the one exception, made at the very start of the campaign before the world was more resolved. There have been no dwarves though—or at least they don’t show up in either my memory or the campaign notes.

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

Doh! I'm recalling other campaigns. Sorry.

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

My first orcs were TFT orcs, and they're still my favorite flavor of orc.

If I were running a Middle Earth campaign, I think many of those goblin/orcs are more like TFT hobgoblins, with the more impressive ones being more like TFT orcs. I don't remember any orcs in Tolkien being like elves, even if in some places it says they may have originally been a corruption of elves. (I also don't remember any orcs in Tolkien being like TFT goblins (i.e. especially smart, and bound to their word) except maybe the Great Goblin in The Hobbit (though IIRC, he was also large).

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

I prefer TFT Orcs.

Having said that, in my game they tend to be the bad guy hordes that harass the Kingdom's citizens that are comprised many races.

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

I don't think TFT orcs are different enough, TBH. Their distinguishing characteristic is being "quarrelsome" which isn't enough to base a whole race on.

I actually prefer John's idea to use the Wendol as a template for a "nastier" human culture, but I can't call them orcs.

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

I have tried my hand at an orc society. (Based of course on the French)

https://www.hcobb.com/tft/The_Humongous_Fungus_Trip.pdf

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

Agreed. I've toyed with orcs being ST 9 DX 8 IQ 7 + 8, negatives to reactions, negatives to resisting various mind control magics (hence commonly used as Dark Lord cannon fodder), positives perhaps to resisting diseases and what have you, superior dark vision but nothing magical. But there needs to be a better reason for taking them than "I want a 25 point Melee character" and I don't know how to do that.

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

I also don't think of TFT orcs as being very distinct, and have always preferred using Goblins anyway, although mine are a little bigger and stronger than the classic TFT goblins, without being as dumb as the hobgoblins. I also prefer them quicker, with a minimum MA of 11 and a maximum of 13. If they are aware you're in one of their tunnel systems, they will catch up with you if they want to before you get out.

While I designed a social system for mine as well, the greatest distinction they always had when we played back in the day was that were truly a nocturnal species, which actually is rather in keeping with Tolkien. Consequently they never got picked as PCs, though we never had a rule against it. Besides the fact the other PCs all disliked/feared/hated Goblins, who'd want to be the one PC in the party on a different sleep cycle than everyone else?

And with being nocturnal, they came with (what we called) Night Vision. It was the opposite of Day Vision. A Goblin saw as well in total darkness as anyone with Day Vision saw in full sunlight. We had a whole 5 level lighting scale that went from one extreme to the other, with Gloom/Overcast being the middle at which both diurnal and nocturnal races had an equal -1 DX penalty. Any darker would favor Goblins over Humans, and brighter would favor Humans over Goblins.

You never encounter one of our Goblins outdoors on a sunny day, because they'd be at -5 DX besides being in pain. But travel by night, and the tides would turn.

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

What's the game effect of the fangs and claws of the orc?
Say always uses the dirty fighting bonus when they use brawling?

Re: Orcs in Legacy
 

No in-game effect at all, far as I'm concerned. Just a bit of color.