DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

Anyone tried running any of the D&D 5e adventurs using DFRPG? Especially using rough conversions of the starting 1st level characters. By this I mean replacing skills and advantages by the nearest DFRPg equivalents, SO NOT trying to do a direct conversion,

The D&D 5e adventures I'm referring to in particular are from the starter set or Essentials Kit.

• Lost Mines of Phandelver
• Dragon of Icespire Peak
• Dragons of Stormwreck Isles

I'm thinking it might be interesting to run a Forgotten Realms campaign starting with Stormwreck Isle and then running a combined Phandelin adventures combining Lost Mines of Phandelver and Dragons of Icespire Peak.

There are tons of DM guides on YouTube dealing with these adventures.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

I occasionally think about picking up some of these 5E adventure books for the background and setup, then I read the Alexandrian reviews about why most of them seem deeply flawed and need serious rejiggering and I just don't bother.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

I have run AD&D adventures using GURPS. You can do it, but it's a bunch of work because fights that make sense in D&D don't make any sense in GURPS, the systems just scale differently.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

I'll be running "March of the Phantom Brigade", a 4e adventure, for 62 pt delvers using Delvers to grow in the near future. I am finding that it's a bit easier converting at that level.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

DFRPG/GURPS fights also don't scale with "level" or anything like it. (A)D&D can predict that a fight between four fire giants and six 9th level PCs is "appropriate for 9th level" in that it will probably result in the giants running out of HP before the PCs do. But in DFRPG the fight's outcome depends less on total points than on how well monster vulnerabilities match up to PC specializations and vice versa: four mountain giants will be crushed by scouts and Throwing Art martial artists but will crush Zephya-style offensive spellcasters, with melee knights/barbarians/swashbucklers/etc. falling somewhere in between depending on tactics and weapons.

I don't think this makes AD&D adventures unusable though. It just puts more responsibility on the players to conduct threat assessment. I have Barrowmaze queued up to probably run sometime in the near future for 3-4 delvers. It looks like I'll need to DFRPGify it by adding more traps and converting treasure, but the monsters should convert straightforwardly. I may have more to say after I actually (maybe) run it. (I'm still a little on the fence but it has a good reputation.)

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

The difference on these is they've already been used by lots of DMs and they've got lots of advice on running them and reworking them. Obviously this is for 5e, but I'd think it wouldn't be too hard adapting for GURPS DFRPG. There are tons of YouTube videos on running LMOP and Dragon of Icespire Peak. The newest adventure Stormwreck Isle only has a few videos, but the advice seems sound.

Armed with DFRPG and the Nordland Bestiary as well as Adventures Guide to Swordcoast, it seems reasonable. I really like having a detailed background and fully fleshed out town setting.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

I've been running D&D stuff (all editions) in GURPS (3e, 4e, DFRPG) since the '90s. For light games I hardly do any prep, just adjust things on the fly. For more serious campaigns, I'll do a bit more work thinking about the encounters and adjusting things, but it works pretty easily. With DFRPG's growing supply of monsters (I'm looking at you, Ovinabokin), I usually just swap D&D baddies with similar creatures from GURPS.

Of the three adventures you mentioned, I've only done bits of Phandelver. Indeed, I started running it with D&D and convinced my players to switch to DFRPG because I find GURPS more fun to play. Of the 5e stuff out there, I've run bits of Candlekeep Mysteries, Saltmarsh, Yawning Portal, and Rime of the Frostmaiden in the past few years. Further back, I had a lot of fun running the Pharoah series with GURPS 3e.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

For Phandelver, what pt cost did you use, and how did you handle the dragon?

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

This was right when DFRPG first came out, so we went with standard 250-point templates with some modifications to make them fit the background of the D&D characters that they had been playing. There was a power jump for them, but they weren't particularly optimal builds, and I beefed up encounters a bit to compensate.

I think the dragon was a small poison breather (Monsters, p. 22). The party got some buffs from the druid, but with the dragon's aerial superiority, it was looking grim for the PCs. Then the scout rolled a critical arrow to the eye, causing a major wound that knocked it from the sky. (If they weren't sold on GURPS by then, that did it!)

After that, they departed from the storyline pretty dramatically, rebuilding Thundertree, getting involved in intrigue in Neverwinter, and somehow inserting the Sunless Citadel adventure.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

OK. I would use the Fire Giants from the Nordland Bestiary, Jötun, Fire Giant (Gaming Ballistic). I don't think a party would survive even one encounter without Water and/or ice magic! I have no idea what 9th level would be for DFRPG. I'd say it will definitely matter how well PCs are skilled, equipped, and prepared. A Wizard would need lots of anti-fire, ice, and water magic. A Scout would need enchanted bow and/or arrows -- especially fine and meteoric. Aim for eyes and maybe neck, mouth. As for a Thief, unless equipped with magic traps and enchanted weapons, I'm not sure they'd help a lot. Clerics would need to buff other characters. I'm not sure of warrior types could engage without lots of anti- fire gear. They'd needed to strike at legs, maybe targeting Achilles, knees, etc.

Maybe outdoors a Druid could cause a storm or blizzard.

GM also needs to make sure to provide some insight and use any PC expertise in areas like Hidden Lore, to clue the players in.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

Why would a scout need magic bow/arrows? As with all big living things with no Nictating Membrane, Scout is your hero. Average of 7 or 8 damage straight to the brain is a major wound, almost auto stun, low chance of unconscious with one hit. I know the advice says attack spellcasters first, but Rocks to the scout is the best chance of survival for the giant - he's the only one that has a chance of one shotting him. Unless mind control/sleep gets through MR 5/will.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

I was thinking of an adapted 5E fire giant, which is basically a Hill or Mountain Giant from Monsters 2 but with immunity to fire/burning damage. I'm AFB, don't have my Nordland Bestiary at the moment, so I'm basically in the position of someone who has failed a Physiology/Hidden Lore check and knows nothing about Fire Jotuns except the obvious.

Killing one should be straightforward, no ice magic required. Several options exist which can be used separately, or together for redundancy: (1) hit it in the eyes (it's a big target!) with an arrow or shuriken or a spear from a woomera; (2) cast Flight on a knight, barbarian, or swashbuckler and have them stab it in the eyes or cut off a leg; (3) have a martial artist or swashbuckler Kiai it to stun it while you kill it; (4) have a bard or wizard mind control it; (5) Death Vision or Stun to stun it; (6) Rapier Wit or Song of Humiliation from swashbuckler or bard to stun it as a free action; (7) swarm it with a bunch of summoned karkadanns, bears, or Phantoms from the druid or wizard; (8) use Dark Vision, Darkness, Great Haste, and maybe Shield or Missile Shield to buff one of your fighters into being able to go toe-to-toe with it (under a Bless).

There's a pretty good chance attacking the eyes will turn out to be futile (see above commentary on difficulty being mostly about monster vulnerabilities, not just numbers), so if I know nothing about the monster but I have a well-balanced party, I'm going to go for the eyes but have some backup plans already in motion in case it doesn't work. E.g. while the scout is Waiting to shoot it in the eyes as soon as it turns the corner (in my head the scenario is that I already spotted it through a wizard eye and now we're luring it into an ambush), the cleric is casting Resist Fire on the Swashbuckler, who is Waiting to Kiai twice, while two of my Complex Illusion decoys (with Initiative) are mirroring the Swashbuckler, and the druid is laying caltrops while the bard and I hold our Concussions ready to throw. (I'm assuming that for whatever reason kiting it to death with scout + Missile Shield + Flight isn't feasible, maybe because we're underground. Besides, I probably wouldn't have Missile Shield--it's not on my top 30 list of must-have spells.)

Ideally we also have Mystic Mist from the druid pre-placed, and inside of that a pre-cast Sanctuary from the cleric, so that if everything goes wrong we have a way to fall back and regroup.

Later on I'll check the books and see if this would work. The point I want to make here though is that taking on one giant just requires one of these tactics to match up well with its actual vulnerabilities, but taking on four of them requires ALL of them to work, roughly speaking.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

I just checked my Nordlond Bestiary, and it turns out that female Fire Jotnar are typically spellcasters, so it might be a good bet that Missile Shield is popular among them.

Yet another example of why scouts should carry and occasionally use meteoric iron bodkin arrows. (Ditto meteoric iron spiked shuriken for ninjas with Throwing Art.)

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

One of the main conversions I've seen is dripton's castle whiterock conversion, which has a conversion guide for both gold and DCs for dnd3.5e

Branching off that, we can use other conversion guides to go from other versions to 3.5, and then to gurps. I found this one, which lists this formula:

So if you're converting the other way, the 3.5 DC would be the 5e DC * 2 - 10

Meanwhile, the same dripton whiterock conversion suggests that level 1 dnd characters are roughly ~125 point DFRPG delvers, and every dnd level is ~25 character points. This implies that a 9th level dnd character is about ~325 gurps points. 250 point DFRPG characters are like 6th level dnd characters.

So applying all of this, the lost mines of phandelver has the heroes make an early DC 12 perception check to spot a trap, and then if they triggered it, a DC 10 dex check to not get snared.

Converting that, a 5e DC 12 would be a 3.5 DC of 14, which is an unmodified Per check in gurps to see the trap. Avoiding it is a 5e DC 10, which is a 3.5 DC of 10, which is a DX+2 check in gurps.

Seems to all look good to me!

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

I'm only interested in D&D 5e and GURPS DFRPG.


Ok, 125 seems a bit high for first level, but probably works well since a lot of encounters in the introcadventures are a bit too tough for 1st level. Power jumps for D&D 5e seem a bit more than 25pts to me. But I'm not super concerned on matching pts to levels. To some extent it won't map that well on combat effectiveness. One thing I've noticed is spells/abilities in DFRPG in general aren't as good on Area of Effect (AoE) and impacting multiple targets as D&D 5e.

Thanks. I'm probably gonna go with replace with closest DFRPG equivalent and just use GURPS capabilities/rules. Snare trap, pit trap - check DFRPG books.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

I use DnD adventures for inspiration and puzzles and such but you have to be willing to take into account that gurps characters often have more random abilities that mess with things. that and shrink the combatants often.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

Sorry if it wasn't clear enough in the post. The math there is for 5e. We're converting 5e to 3.5, and then to DFRPG. There are tons of 3.5 <=> 5e conversions because the community is huge, and so converting back and forth between those two systems is easy. We also have a solid conversion between 3.5 and DFRPG.

This means that 3.5 is now the sort of "universal language". If we find a 3.5 module, great, we can convert it directly. If we find a 5e module, we convert it into 3.5 and then into gurps.

If you want to make a 5e to gurps table directly, it would look like this:

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

Some how I doubt 62 pt GURPS characters match well even with 1st level 5e. The stats alone would tend to push the 62 point level. The magic i think is more powerful for D&D 5e if not as flexible as DFRPG.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

Bear in mind that a +2 to a stat in 5e is only +5%. Based on actual mechanical benefits, I'd convert D&D stats as 8+stat/4, so typical level 1s have a single stat at 12 and everything else 10-11.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

Yeah, but that checks out. If they’re IQ12, ST11, DX10, HT11, that.s [40] already. If they’re a thief or something, with IQ11 ST110 DX12 HT11 that’s [70], and you’re in Disad debt already.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

Converting D&D adventures to Dungeon Fantasy RPG (Powered By GURPS)

One of the joys of GURPS, in theory, is that you can run anything you can think of in it. One of the joys of running well-designed D&D modules, from AD&D's Against the Giants series to the best of OSR adventures today, is that they are different from stuff you write yourself. They can surprise you and teach you new things. There are some monsters that D&D and DFRPG share in common, like ogres, goblins, dragons, and mariliths/peshkalis, and there are products out there like Nordlond Bestiary which provide quite a lot of others, but what do you do about traps and treasure?

Here are my rules:

1.) For treasure values, divide gold piece amounts by 100 and silver amounts by 10, e.g. if the module says you find 200 gp and 35 silver, you find two gold pieces ($800) and three silver pieces ($60). For jewelry/trade goods/etc. apply this same rule directly to the value of the jewels/etc. using whatever currency the value is given in.

2.) For traps, if it's a known trap type from the DFRPG books like a deadfall or crossbow trap, use whatever is listed there. Otherwise, it's noticed with a Per check; Disarmed with a Traps check; unavoidable unless disarmed; and if it's triggered it is Saved/Evaded with a DX check (or Will check if magical, HT check if poisonous), and does the same damage as listed in the module. Since D&D and DFRPG use HP differently, traps with large damage amounts in D&D (e.g. 5d10 poison) are sometimes intended to be reliably lethal, but that's better represented in DFRPG by making them difficult to avoid. Every time you cut the damage dice in half, rounded up, add a -2 penalty to all detection/disarm/evasion rolls. For example, if an evil lich king's tomb has a poison gas damage trap that does 5d10 poison damage per round for 10 rounds if triggered, in DFRPG you can convert it to a 3d10 toxic damage per second gas trap that is detected by Per-2, disarmed by Traps-2, and does no damage this second if you succeed against HT-2. Or you can halve the damage twice more to get a 1d10 damage per second trap that's detected by Per-6, disarmed by Traps-6, and resisted by HT-6.

3.) In all cases, if these simple defaults feel off to you, tweak them! If you want to convert the gas trap from 1d10 damage to 2d6, detected at Per and disarmed at Traps-6 but with no HT check to avoid the damage, do so. These rules are just a starting point to save you hassle for things you don't have a strong opinion about.

Happy gaming to all!

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

The real question here is WHY?

Sorry guys but these are VERY basics adventures!!!

caravan to ein arris is better!!!

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

For me it's because I'm interested in learning things from people smarter than me, and while 99% of D&D adventures are terrible, the ones that get good reviews on Ten Foot Pole are worth my time. (Also check out every adventure review on 1shotadventures, such as https://youtu.be/EokYqPJvBdQ?si=JVJ4PqAQJqcg7mOD for GURPS Orcslayer.)

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

Caravan to Ein Arris has NO magic. Why bother. It is the WORST game for recruiting folks to GURPS when they're expecting a fantasy game. Unless there has been an update to it to add magic.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

Who needs an update? Just add magic. I did that when I ran it as a solo adventure over thirty years ago.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

Unreasonable for new GMs. Easier to skip it and use something else.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

If converting to GURPS you really should convert to d6. GURPS doesn't use d10s.

I guess I'd do 1d10 -> 2d6 - 2 (to give the correct range, min 1). Of course, the actual results would have a different distribution, but I'm ol with more mid-range results.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

I was a new to GURPS GM when I did it over thirty years ago. Are newby GMs these days not made of the same stuff?

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

They are not. Far larger audience, more likely used to more technology with less patience. Comparison will be D&D 5e. GURPS already has the "too much crunch" rep working against it. Unfortunately there is no analogous GURPS Lite for Magic. I ran across a podcast for simple GURPS Dungeon fantasy that uses GURPS Lite 3e because apparently it included magic (I hadn't realized that old version had magic).

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

This afternoon I ran chapter five, "Paths of Peril," from Phandelver and Below: The Shattered Obelisk. Although the overall adventure is deeply flawed, this chapter was pretty fun and worked easily with DFRPG. It's basically a bunch of little mysteries that provide clues that lead the party to a secret lair with an evil cult. There are lots of opportunities to bring a variety of skills to bear. Indeed, I suspect that it plays better in DFRPG than D&D because of the wider variety of skills. The chapter is intended for levels 5-7, so it was a good fit for 250-point DFRPG characters.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

No, it's not better than anything. It's deeply flawed at the very least because a skill of 16 is considered exceptional & yet our two bandits have skills of 18, when they attack the caravan & the PC's try to defend it as "beginners" with skills of 14.
There is a GURPS LITE for Mgaic - either the 3E Lite version of GURPS, or GURPS Thaumatology, or GURPS Magic. But, accept that means rules-light, meaning there is a lot of GM adjudication. If you don't want lots of GM adjudication, you don't want rules-light. It's that simple.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

What skill 18 bandits. All the brigands are 15 or 16, even the Brigand Chief.

Magic and Thaumatology are no substitute for a Lite version of magic. The 3e Lite can sort of work but most new players won't be looking through 3e lite if trying to run a 4e adventure.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

So is that the part that picks up AFTER the origiginal Lost Mines adventure? I'm unclear how GURPS wider range of skills comes into play better than 5E? I can definitely see GURPS Advantages and especially Disadvnatages making for richer roleplaying. However, there aren't a lot of skills I think make a big difference. Especially as things liKe Area Knowledge aren't part of DFRPG. I think D&D 5e handles it with History but I might be wrong on that. I guess the separation of Survival (area type) makes a difference. What else?

I've only played a couple of sessions of 5E and read someone of the 5e basic rules and a bit of the players hand book along with the start set adventure and the essentials kit adventure.

I'd love to hear some details.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

Yes, after the party returns to Phandalin from Wave Echo Cave. The new version includes a few hints along the way that there is more to come, but it's all pretty weak.

I enjoy the finer grained nature of GURPS skills. Skills that I recall coming up in the session included: acrobatics, brawling, carousing, cartography, climbing, diplomacy, fast-talk, hidden lore (elder things), hidden lore (undead), jumping, lifting, lip reading, merchant, naturalist, observation, poisons, research, scrounging, stealth, streetwise, swimming, thaumatology, theology, traps, and wrestling (plus regular melee and ranged weapon skills). I'm sure I'm missing some, too.

Clearly, the adventure is easily playable with 5e's set of skills; it was designed for that. It seemed to me, having only run it once with DFRPG, that the larger selection of skills meant that there were more ways to approach problems. The players could come up with interesting synergies and possibilities that weren't immediately obvious to me as the GM.

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OK, one thing I like is using the languages. I note that 5E seems to just hand out a bunch of languages to all the characters but in DFRPG they cost points and you need to be intentional in chosing them at character creation. One thing I want to use is how to tell what a potion is. If the characters get a potion from Goblins, it is probably labeled in Goblin language. So if they can read Goblin then they no what it does. If not they need to do some analysis. There are 3 bottles recovered. One is clear with a red liquid, another is in a blue bottle, and the third is in a green bottle. They are labeled in a foreign script. Now if any of the PCs knows Goblin, not problem. Otherwise, it is rolling vs Alchemy and/or Herb Lore modified by rolls on senses smell/taste. Chests and doors are locked so Lockpicking or Forced Entry. Of course strong characters can just use brute force, but for chests maybe that leads to broken bottles for potions and poisons. I know some of the skills include Physiology (monster) which I found odd until I thought about it. A moster will have different body parts and someone knowing Physiology monster knows where the monsters weaknesses are -- internal organs, neck, where are the arm joints, where are the weak points between armor or tough skin, etc.

So OK, I can see the various richness GURPS DFRPG lends to approaching an adventure.

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

Or even just respond differently to time pressure. A scene from the Pathfinder-under-DF campaign:

Thief, listening outside the side door of a potion shop as others knock loudly at the front, just after midnight. "I heard a trap door open and close! I'll pick the lock."
Knight, arriving at said door. "Too slow. Forced Entry."

Re: DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures
 

My mistake then. I checked & you're correct, there are no brigands with 18 skill, so I was just misremembering it.
The 3E lite is a very poor substitute. IIRC, there are only around 10 spells in there.

As for GURPS Magic, you've got Syntactic Magic on p202 and Symbol Magic on p205, which are both very rules-lite systems of magic. Complete alternatives to the standard system.

As for GURPS Thaumatology, it is probably the best option though, because it gives you the above, plus it also gives you Book/Path Magic, which is heavier on rules, but at least it's not 1,000+ spells you'd need to deal with - that's hard work for a new GURPS GM.

Edit - I really should have separated those responses. They're dealing with two completely different subjects.