Lock/Knock always used in batches of fives?
 

I was creating a locked door in a labyrinth using Lock/Knock (and no mechanical lock at all). The door was locked by a wizard of middling skill level and so I thought perhaps he'd only put two or three locks on it.

But then I realized that, no matter how middling the wizard or how unimportant the door, just about every door locked with a Lock spell ought to have five such spells on it. After all, it takes only 30 minutes to recover from adding another spell, so if it's worth protecting at all, it might as well be protected to the limits of the Rule of Five.

Obviously, I'm not talking about hastily cast Lock spells to throw off pursuers, but Lock spells used around one's abode. Where the mechanical lock requires considerable investment to improve, the Lock spell improves with linear (and trivial) sacrifice.

So, have any PCs or NPCs ever cast less than five Lock spells on any doors in their homes, lairs, strongholds, whatnot? Do your PCs just run into zero or five Lock spells at each door or chest?

(Okay, it's possible that you'd want a door to be hard but not too hard to open, just so it doesn't frustrate the paramedics so much that they leave in disgust, but that's not usually an issue when locking things by spell.)

Re: Lock/Knock always used in batches of fives?
 

What happens to all of those Lock spells when somebody uses the proper key for the door? Are the spells suspended or just gone?

Re: Lock/Knock always used in batches of fives?
 

It's a reasonable question, but it's not relevant to my question.

Re: Lock/Knock always used in batches of fives?
 

I could be. Perhaps two lock spells require a 2/DX roll to turn that key.

Re: Lock/Knock always used in batches of fives?
 

Look, I guess it's a point worth discussing. Lock makes doors without Lock hard to open -- in fact, unopenable without Knock or forcing the door open using crowbar, brute force, etc. But Lock on a door with a lock can be overcome by picking the lock. What does it do if you have the key?

It's a good question, but it really is not relevant to my question about whether anyone really casts Lock fewer than five times, aside from in emergency situations.

But whatever. I guess we can open the thread to this question too.

Re: Lock/Knock always used in batches of fives?
 

Eventually players figure out the Rule of Five with regard to Lock/Knock and Reveal/Conceal, and they'll cast them as many times as ST will allow to overcome the Rule of Five. I wish there were a better way to deal with locks and obfuscation, but it would almost certainly be at the expense of simplicity.

Re: Lock/Knock always used in batches of fives?
 

The ease of casting Lock/Knock makes for a sad asymmetry. Lock/Knock seems to more or less dominate over mechanical skills (as Henry commented recently).

A mechanician takes a lot longer to make, say, a 5/DX lock than it would take to cast Lock 5 times.[1]

A mechanician can't unlock a door with Lock cast on it, unless it also has a lock. In that case, he has to roll n + 5/DX where n is the difficulty of the lock. That's a pretty damned tall order.

The wizard can unlock a mechanically locked door with one Knock spell. The difficulty of the lock doesn't matter at all. He can unlock a door with Lock cast on it n times by casting Knock n times. If the door has both mechanical and magical locks, add one for the mechanical.

Some of these issues were discussed way back in the first thread about locks I wrote.

[1] On the other hand, I guess there's no rule of five for the mechanician, so he could make a 17/DX lock is the GM allows it.

Re: Lock/Knock always used in batches of fives?
 

I do think ITL made it sound like lock difficulty has a limit.* But still, your point is also true in how many locks the mechanician puts on the door. Only 5 lock spells, but 30 physical locks!

And there is the old joke about multiple locks: only lock half of them so after the thief picks all of them he just unlock half but locked the other half.

* I am wrong on this point. ITL mere states an normal lock would take a thief 3/DX (unskilled would take double that).

Re: Lock/Knock always used in batches of fives?
 

If you have the key or combination is a mechanical lock always automatic and if so does it matter how many Lock spells are put on top of that?

Re: Lock/Knock always used in batches of fives?
 

A normal lock is 3/DX, but I presume that a mechanician can make an unusually difficult lock. It depends, of course, on how we interpret "normal", but I'd think that at least a Master Mechanician can make a, say, 5/DX lock with the time determined just as it is for traps.

There's no limit to how difficult a trap can be (to spot, to avoid, to disarm) either, just time required to build it (in the description for [Master] Mechanician). Of course, I wouldn't think you can make a 17/IQ trap to spot. There must be unstated limits.