GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
Greetings again,
Am GM-ing a GURPS campaign again for the first time since 2013, and wow I feel really rusty with the rules and mechanics. However, I can still keep the action or story flowing.. Okay, I have had three game sessions (two and a half?) and things are going "alright" but I feel like I am coasting. Its "Star Trek" and I want to do ship combat - so I am trying to figure out the old GURPS: Spaceships combat system and how to approximate a Saladin-class destroyer and a typical Klingon D-7 Battle cruiser. The next game session there is very likely going to be a battle. Oh yeah - the players are the Officers or Department heads of a Saladin-class destroyer named the USS Cochise NCC-530. The year is 2261 - or 2 years after the current episodes of "Strange New Worlds" and 5 years before the classic Captain Kirk "TOS" stories take place. I want to run a boarding action where a group of Klingons try to take over the USS Cochise. So of course I feel really out of practice with the combat rules or the way I used to run it so it never felt 'slow' to the players. There is also the matter of making a decent handful of NPC crew member so the players have detailed folks to command and help out. That means right now I really good GURPS templates for these races: Caitians - the cat like race seen a few times - mainly "TAS" and "Lower Decks" Deltans - Bald race really only seen in "ST:TMP" Denobulans - Race featured in "Enterprise" but assumed to still part of the Federation in the 2260s Edoans or "Edosians" - the orange skinned race with three arms and three legs seen in TAS as Lt. Arrex the Navigator Saurians - The often mentioned race, now finally seen as crew in episodes of "Discovery" and "Strange New Worlds" The races of Vulcan, Andorians, and Tellarites I am using the Prime Directive templates that are in the GCA. Hoping to find enough miniatures here and there before our next game session on Sunday July 31. Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. -Ed C. |
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The same thread has basic character templates for Caitans and Denobulans. There are no GURPS 4E templates for the other races, but two reasonably good fan-made GURPS 3E Star Trek conversions still exist and have easily adaptable templates for Deltans and Edosians: http://www.gurpsnet.org/Archive/Worlds/Trek/ https://www.angelfire.com/tv/klingonkhi/gurps.htm A very rough first pass at a Saurian Racial Template based on Memory Alpha: Saurian (19 points)
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Captain Joy's web site has lots of good GURPS 4E stuff for a SNW/TOS era ST game, including good templates for the major Starfleet departments and divisions. He's probably the best person to ask for advice on running a TOS-era GURPS ST campaign. He occasionally posts on this forum, so a PM might get his attention. http://captainjoy.chunkyboy.com/GURP...n_Console.html |
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Saurians have claws??
Did we 'see' them onscreen in either "ST:Disco" or "ST:SNW"? - Ed C. |
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There's an Edoan character in the unofficial GURPS Star Trek Who Tracks the Steps of Glory adventure here.
He's got Compartmentalized Mind, DR 1 (skull only), Extended Lifespan, Extra Arm, Extra Leg, High Manual Dexterity, Musical Ability 1, and Shyness. |
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I didn't see a separate or isolated character description...or race description. - Ed C. |
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I don't know whether you've seen the recent GURPS Star Trek - High Value Posts thread. It seems to list a Denobulan template and a Caitian template, though not any of the others.
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I wouldn't treat the Musical Ability talent as a required part of the racial template, however. |
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===United Federation of Planets=== Vulcans [70]; Humans [0]; Rigellians [11]; Cygnans [16]; Alpha-Centaurans [50 female /24 male]; Prellarians [35]; Deians [37]; Mynieni [67]; Brecon [45]; Arcturians [35]; Andorians [50]; Tellarites [27]; ===Klingon Empire=== Ethnic Klingon Warriors [44]; Dunkars [19]; Slirdarians [-6]; Hilidarians [41]; Cromargs [34]; Zoolies [14]; Yitlians [23]; ===Romulan Star Empire=== Romulans [33] ===Kzinti Hegemony=== Kzintis [35 males/23 females] ===The Confederation of the Gorn=== Gorns [18]; Skoleans [-2] ===Independent groups=== Tholians [101]; Orions [21 male/13 female]; Hydrans [10]; ===Lyran Star Empire=== Lyrans [43]; Ranel [10]; Phelen [40] ===The Interstellar Concordium (ISC)=== Veltressai [79]/ Veltressai quad [136]; Q'Naabians [2]; Pronhoulites [43]; Rovillians [81]; Korlivilar [111] ===More Independent groups=== Seltorians [-100 queen/30 sages/ 21 workers/experts 65]; Jindarians [141]; Vudar [65]; Paravian [17], Carnivon [48] |
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You know about Memory Alpha, right?
MA on Saurians (doesn't mention any claws, and shows a human-like hand in the cartoon picture, anyway. The one here however has a long nail, maybe a short claw.) |
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Yeah I try to keep the SFU Battles universe as far away from my game campaign as possible - like with a ten meter pole. Since the majority of my players have watched "Star Trek: Discovery", or have sampled "Strange New Worlds" I want to stick with Star Trek races that are 'canon' and have been seen onscreen. - Ed C. |
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However, Memory Alpha does not have GURPS Templates or advice. ..Or helpful hints for running combat when the Gm feels really rusty - I was hoping for more of that sort of thing. - Ed C. |
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As you mentioned GCA uses Prime Directive for its templates of Vulcan, Andorians, and Tellarites. So by using those templates you are kind of stuck with SFU's take on those races. |
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In setting agnostic terms tho...if a Battlecruiser is boarding a Destroyer...unless something happens to allow the DD to break off...the DD is a couple of millimeters away from being captured. Normally a combat between a CA and a DD would be clubbing baby seals territory...if the battle has progressed to where the DD is shields down and boarding parties aboard...well in most settings I am aware of a line cruiser has more marines and crew than a line destroyer...never mind racial idiosyncrasies. I am sure the GM has a plan around this...but since you mentioned a touch of rust I thought I would mention with the disparity between the combatants there are a lot of ways this could go sideways on the Feds...in a hurry. |
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If I could use the old FASA ship combat rules in conjunction with GURPS I would -OR- If I could adapt the Heroclix ship miniatures rules to work with the GURPS campaign I might. When I asked for "Help" in GM-ing a possible ship combat and very likely boarding action - I was referring to the GURPS mechanics and rules that were released over 10 years ago. (in "GURPS SPACESHIPS") Somewhere around here I have a printout of that - but I haven't found it yet. I may have to Reff those scenes based on the gist of what I remember, but I could still use some decent advice and help that does not refer to 'Starfleet Battles' the game in any way. Would love to do it all as "GURPSy" as possible. -Ed C. |
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The Deltans I want in my campaign story because I think that "Strange New Worlds" might mention them . -Ed C. |
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Most flavors of Star Trek for transporters (the most common boarding avenue) to work on a ship that ships shields must be down. A small Destroyer with shields down is incredibly easier for a bigger Cruiser to destroy. The only 'saving' grace is that the Cruiser might have a reason to capture. However once the Cruiser has boarding parties aboard the Destroyer they are 70+% of the way to that capture in most normal scenarios. If the GM plans for the Calvary to 'come over the hill' great. If the GM has 'legendary' marines aboard the destroyer great. I was just noting that even having a plan it would be good to have a backup plan (and possibly liberal dice fudging in the parties favor) since as described it sounds like a 'challenging encounter'. Edit: WW2 which was a common experience for most of the writers/creators of TOS...US Destroyer average crew appx 110 men US Cruiser 1100. |
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Additionally, the stats for the Miranda-Class ship might be close enough to a destroyer that you could easily convert them. |
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Don't read too much in the names destroyer & battlecruiser. The meaning of the name changes over time (e.g., frigate) so for Starfleet destroyer could just be the term for a major ship focused on combat operations. In the Technical Manual, the Saladin is half the tonnage of a Constitution class cruiser (95,000 tons displacement) but has the same armament. That could be interpreted a number of ways: 1. The Saladin is a muscle ship focused on combat and competitive with the Constitution class. 2 The Saladin is more focused on combat than Constitution class ships but still serves secondary functions. Its weapons pack less punch than a Constitution class but more punch per ton. 3. The Saladin is functionally a scaled down Constitution class ship. So compared to a D-7...D-7 tonnage is unclear but the numbers I've seen suggest around 125,000 tons. Bigger than the Saladin but not overwhelmingly so. Combat focused obviously but the models I've seen usually assume they carry significant troops as well. Usually they seem outgunned by Constitution class ships (that was true in the FASA rpg) but that could be explain by the power of Kirk. I'd assume Starfleet design is a little superior - the Feds have the best engineers. Depending on what you want, a Saladin class could be surprisingly even, somewhat outgunned or badly outgunned. Design the two ships accordingly. I'd also make the Klingons even in skill for strict combat functions but inferior for support - engineering, medical, operations not focused on blowing stuff up. Depending on how balanced the ships are, you could play it as the D-7 got tricky and managed to beam over a bunch of troops to the Cochise so the crew has to fight off boarders while fighting the D-7. Alternately, if you assume the D-7 outgunned the Saladin badly, the Klingons deliberately set out to capture the ship so the Saladin is trying to resist boarding long enough for help to arrive and the D-7 is pulling its punches because it doesn't want to destroy its prize. The Intrepid class cruiser in Spaceships 3 looks suspiciously Star Trek inspired so that might be worth a look for a build. |
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Also, for FASATrek you'd want to look at available for weapons and shields (which came from the engines, both warp and impulse). Two ships with the same weapons might not be very equal at all. |
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According to Memory Alpha, the images of the Saladin Class destroyer in canon were ripped off with few modifications from Star Fleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph. He created the design out of whole cloth and it then got "canonized" as background images in the two of the movies.
Since SFTM gave notional stats for its armament, crew, etc. you could raid that book for better info if you've got it. Nominally, the saucer section is identical to that of the Constitution class, which means that you can use readily-available maps of USS Enterprise for most of the ship. Of course, since Star Fleet Battles is based on SFTM, the Saladin class was one of the first designs that the Amarillo Deign Bureau people adapted. That means that you might get decent "close enough to canon" stats for it from SFB or Prime Directive! My recollection of playing SFB is that it was grossly underpowered and undergunned. A D-7, balanced to be a reasonable match for a Constitution-Class Cruiser, would make short work of it using SFB rules. You might want to upgrade the Cochise somehow (or downgrade the D-7) to make it a more even fight using a homebrewed rules system. Memory Beta has a summary of the SFTM data: https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Saladin_class Scan from SFTM here: https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/sftm.htm It looks like the ship has 2 photon torpedo launchers in the decks just below the bridge mounted on the dorsal side of the saucer, a pair of phasers mounted on the port and starboard dorsal sections of the saucer, and a pair of phasers mounted on the ventral side of the saucer near the bow. Apparently, the Cochise or MK-VIIIB subclass was upgraded (but no stats provided), which might provide a handy explanation as to why a Federation destroyer has a fighting chance against a D-7. |
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As I recall, FASA Trek had a destroyer similar to the Saladin class that had similar but less powerful weapons compared to the Enterprise. There's barely a trace of Saladin class in the official canon so there's leeway for deciding just what kind of ships they are. |
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I DO have the old FASA books that you refer to - but they are not really a huge help for GURPS, tho I did concoct a system to convert FASA NPCs and pregenerated characters into GURPS style characters that I use as 'background' NPCs. - Ed C. |
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Combat
GURPS-style combat... Here is the problem that I was hoping some of you would help me out with - If GURPS Combat is done in 1 second turns, then doing a fight against a 'boarding action' where Transporters are being used will end pretty quick. Most 'Star Trek' transporters are flickering or shimmering for what feels like TWO seconds That means anyone 'beaming in' to invade or attack will be spotted pretty quickly and does not have any element of surprise. -Ed C. |
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If the attackers choose poorly or have bad luck and appear in an area with ARMED alert personnel they will likely eat a round of fire BEFORE round time starts. If the choose middling then they appear in an area with personnel, possibly even armed personnel. However they if they are not Security they are probably concentrating on their duties (in combat I would sure hope so). If the area has Security posted the Security alone would get one free shot. So basically I would then call top of the round. If they choose well then they are in an empty section and would get the 'round' to acclimate. Then reacting Security forces would not be surprised, but might be forced to attack. That would be a disadvantage, especially if the section has only one entrance. In most fiction the targets to protect are the Bridge, Life Support and Engineering. If I were GM I would assume they would get posted guards at Red Alert and that the boarders would be trying to seize all three. If they manage that then basically it is all over but the shouting. |
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I would give them a sensor roll to try but the penalties would be hefty. A phaser on 'that ship over there' is a very small energy signature on big object. At Red Alert there are a lot of energetic objects. Plasma Conduits, Force Field Generators, Replicators, etc, etc. I really do not see any easy (or medium hard)way to pick out the phaser signature out of all the others. Trek canonically has had Life Signs as distinctive and detectable so no Life Signs and Atmosphere will likely be their best target. |
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There's also a fair bit of evidence that attacks which hit someone transporting in or out just before they materialize might have pain or stunning effects, but do no damage. Really massive attacks which would normally vaporize the victim might interfere with transporter operations rolls to get them back. Anything but a critical failure when trying to get a transport target back means spend 1d seconds messing with the transporter panel and then make another skill roll at a cumulative -1 penalty per previous failed attempt. Increasing power or kicking in backup systems ("cross-circuiting to B") can cancel penalties or even give bonuses. Quote:
This is where a good security officer earns their keep. Not only are they looking at damage control, hull and shield integrity, etc., they're also looking for signs of intruders, and gaps in internal sensor cover which intruders could use to hide. Not surprisingly Prime Directive has a fair bit of info on boarding actions. If you want to abstract it: 1) Inflict enough damage or sabotage to get the enemy to drop their shields (transporters don't work against shields). 2) Roll vs. Tactics, with EO (Sensors or Security) to find a good place to drop in the first boarding party. 3) Roll vs. EO (Transporters) with whatever modifiers seem right to actually get the boarding party in place. 4) The first boarding party makes skill rolls to orient themselves and establish a "beachhead." Treat this as a Body Control or Tactics skill roll. 5) More boarding parties come in behind them. Alternately, they get transported to other points on the target ship to divide enemy defenses or quickly take out multiple critical targets like the bridge and engines. More Tactics, possibly Electronics Repair (Security) or Demolitions (Explosives) to sabotage defenses. 6) Meanwhile, defenders are doing what they can to defeat the invaders - venting atmosphere or pumping in gas, messing with gravity control, closing bulkheads and throwing up force screens in the corridor, or using their own transporters to transport defenders to ambush the invaders, beaming in explosives or other weapons, or transporting intruders into the brig or space. Both sides might send in boarding parties in vacc suits to land on the ship's hull, either to sabotage vital systems from the outside or bypass hostile forces inside the ship. More Tactics, EO (Sensors) determine where foes are, ER (Life Support) to sabotage or restore atmosphere and gravity systems, Crewman or ER (Security) or even Lockpicking or Forced Entry skill to crack open bulkhead doors and bypass force screens. |
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The noise the process generates is an issue. |
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My game campaign is set in the year 2261. They really were not using 'replicators' back then and if "Strange New Worlds" has used the term - then they should not have. That term and device were not even mentioned til the 2360s of the first season of "ST The Next Generation" - at least a century later in time. -Ed C. |
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It was the first officially licensed reference book produced and AFAICT it is still regarded as canon. |
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Oh and this debate about 'replicators' has nothing to do with the gaming questions in this thread. - Ed C. |
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This means that, just because it isn't mentioned in TOS, TAS, or the TOS cast movies, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist in the ST universe at the time. Just assume that there are slower, bulkier, and less adaptable precursors to 24th century energy-to-matter replicators, but that they're called by different names. Enterprise, DIS, and SNW establish that there are "replicator like" gadgets available from the 22nd century on and full conversion of shipboard waste into its component molecules. It's also implied that starships have a limited ability make hull plates, spare parts, uniforms, and odd gadgets (like a short run of flintlock muskets, plus ammo) without needing extensive machine shop facilities. That suggests that there are advanced versions of 3D printers available. |
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B- Was thinking of named memorable systems that would have a high energy draw. Was not thinking re: time line. Hell at Red Alert all replicators would be off line and zero power draw regardless of time period. Sheesshhh. |
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Star Trek continuity seems inconsistent about replicators sometimes, so if Qoltar and Qoltar's players want no replicators in 2261, they can have it, and it possibly be as reasonable as anything else. There may be advantages to not having replicators - that way, you can have treasure, exotic cargoes being carried from planet to planet, and traders flitting about the galaxy hoping to strike it rich, and it make sense.
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It looks like templates for all the five alien species you asked about (Caitians, Deltans, Denobulans, Edosians and Saurians) have been posted, don't know if that covers what you were after.
If so, that possibly just leaves the question of how to do spaceship combat (from scratch without relying on references to Star Fleet Battles). |
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Kirk's comment to Korob his ship could make precious stones by the ton shows that they likely had the means to make inorganic matter at the drop of a hat. We will just ignore the latest retcon because 'eww that is what the food is actually made from?' Never midn that dosen't match what TOS said. |
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Oh, I don't mean the existence of traders in the series proves that there definitely aren't replicators, I mean that not having replicators makes it easier to justify having lots of that kind of thing in your game and some people like it like that.
(The precious stones certainly hints at replicators, but could have been just very good regular (and more interesting) methods - I know this because I got distracted and spent nearly an hour looking it up earlier :-D Artificial synthesis of gemstones was well under way by the 1960s, and the equipment used isn't actually that huge - and it's pretty well established that the Enterprise's labs are equipped for any not-too-exotic scientific process that the plot needs them to be equipped for. (https://www.gia.edu/gem-synthetic). As for "by the ton", well... this is Captain Kirk trying to impress a bad guy, and he didn't say how long it would take to make a ton of them :-D Note that when Kirk finds a heap of diamonds in "Arena", he calls it "an incredible fortune". The one that seems to point more definitely to replicators is "Tomorrow is Yesterday" - that crew member asked the Air Force man to order whatever food he wanted, and clearly expected to get away with it - and, as other posters have pointed out, that's flat out contradicted by "Charlie X" and possibly other things. The question of what the little food dispensers actually do is so contradictory that it looks as if either the "writers' bible" wasn't kept up to date on this point or the writers weren't reading it.) Replicators or not, it does seem clear that TOS Starfleet ships were meant to be Seriously Rich and have plenty of resources to throw at problems. |
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Short version with no 'debate' - they never said 'replicators' in any episode of "TOS".
Also, I have only seen the first episode of "Star Trek: Strange New Worlds" - it was free on YouTube and I don't have 'streaming'. So, in my campaign there are no darn 'replicators. I know my Trek The ship has food processors or food slots - and also chefs or cooks from time to time. Like I said, I Know my "Star Trek".... - Ed C. |
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IIRC, there's never been a canon situation where the defenders are waiting as attackers phase in and just blast them. What seems fair, however, is for defenders to get an Aim bonus while boarders are phasing in. Several seconds of aim, plus bracing your weapon, would give massive bonuses to hit, especially at the relatively close ranges involved in boarding actions. Boarders would have to make Body Control skill rolls to instantly orient themselves and then possibly Fast-Draw skill rolls to get their weapons in firing position, and finally the equivalent of an All-Out Attack if they want to get a shot off on the turn they materialize. If you beam in with weapon in hand, you still have to do the Body Control roll and the AoA, but not Fast-Draw. A potentially wiser trick would be beam in in a Crouch, then do Body Control roll and the equivalent of an All Out Defense to dive for cover. The transporter operator's Tactics skill (or the Tactics skill of whoever is giving orders, if they can coordinate with the operator) is critical to getting spacing and facing of the boarders correct. A CF isn't going to materialize someone into a bulkhead, but it might have them facing the wrong way or on the wrong side of a door. Quote:
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The "spearhead" landing party might try to find a secure area and then try to hack into nearby security and life support systems. This would allow them to open doors, drop or raise interior force screens, and, most importantly, control local gravity and HVAC systems. Failure to control gravity systems means that defenders might be able to play "gravity pong" with boarders by randomly increasing and dropping gravity levels or reverse the gravity direction at intervals to slam boarders into the deck or overhead. Just maxing out the gravity level might be enough to pin heavily encumbered boarders to the deck. Failure to control HVAC systems means that the defenders can pump in gas, change atmosphere composition, or vent atmosphere to immediately incapacitate attackers. Trapped attackers can be frozen or roasted by setting heating or cooling in a given area on maximum. It's never been done in canon, but there's also no reason why the attacking ship couldn't use its cargo transporters to beam in barriers to protect boarders, beam in explosives or gas as the "first wave," or play games with the defenders by beaming in humanoid dummies or partially beaming in objects and then reverse the process to beam them out. The last trick would create an obvious long lasting transporter energy signature that might distract defenders or confuse sensor operators. They can also try to beam out key enemy personnel in unshielded areas. Attackers who find themselves in a tight corner could also ask to be transported to another location. Point-to-point transport is tricky, however, and might not be possible using 23rd century tech. You have to bring the boarding party back to the transporter pad, temporarily put their energy patterns into the pattern buffer, then reconfigure the transporter controls to beam them out again, to another location, without ever materializing them on the transporter pads. (SNW established that it is possible store living beings in a transporter's pattern buffer for weeks or months by about 2356. The problem is quickly reversing the process and "acquiring" a new landing location quickly.) Quote:
Since larger ships often have auxiliary bridge and engineering control rooms, boarders might try for those areas and then try to hack the ship's security systems to divert control. The other possibility is to take hostages in order to force a surrender, but this isn't likely to work against species that prefer death to surrender. When the tactic is viable, that allows boarders to go after the sickbay or civilian passenger quarters. (Borg definitely go for this option. Beam into civilian areas, seal them off, assimilate everyone, then use the newly created drones as cannon fodder to take the rest of the ship.) Any species might consider a surrender or truce if the boarders capture something really important aboard the ship. ("You can die with honor, but weaken the empire by letting the unobtainium shipment get destroyed or you can agree to a truce and save it. A truce allows you to do your duty to the empire and live, while preserving enough honor that you're not perma-banned from Sto-vo-kor/turned over to the Tal Shiar/Obsidian Order/Founders for use as reactor shielding.") |
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When materialization FINISHES fire. At the ranges for most ST ship combats the boarders would die 85+% of the time before they draw a breath of your air. Quote:
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All of course my $0.02 but since we have been asked for help just dipping my oar in. |
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It gives me the skeleton or foundation to build on. No way in bleep would I ever run the "SFU"/PD universe. To me it reads like a twisted perversion of the 'Star Trek' universe. Also, I am trying to emulate or simulate things seen or referenced in the current versions of "Star Trek" on TV - mainly the first two seasons of "Star Trek Discovery" and the first few episodes of "Star Trek Strange New Worlds". - Ed C. |
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My players are most familiar with those recent shows so that is what is comfortable and familiar for them. The idea is to have fun in a role-playing game - not start a critical debate about which version of 'Star Trek' is better. New Players are most comfortable with what looks familiar. - Ed C. |
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Posted to this thread per Qoltar's PM request:
Templates based on watching relevant ST episodes, checking transcripts, and double-checking against Memory Alpha. They should be "mostly accurate" up to SNW Season 1. If these templates are overpowered, it's because I've tried to model exactly what characters of a given species are shown doing in the shows. For example, Denobulans have full-fledged Clinging ability, but Dr. Phlox uses the power exactly once in the entire run of Enterprise. Denobulan (39 or 42 points)
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Caitian (Unknown Planet (Cait?), Class M, Α or Β Quadrant) (14 points)
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Edosian (Unknown Homeworld, Class M?, Α Quadrant?) (15 points)
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Deltan (Delta IV, Class M, Α Quadrant?) (25 points)
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Since it seems germane to Qoltar's original request:
Klingon (Qo’nos, Class M, B Quadrant) (39 points)
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More Klingons . . .
Variation: Augment Virus-Afflicted Klingon - Adult Survivor (-19 points).
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Variation: Augment Virus-Afflicted Klingon - Child Survivor (-15 points).
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Variation: Follower of T'Kuvna (-35 points)
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Female Klingon (-11 points)
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Even more Klingons
Variation: Human-Klingon Hybrid - Culturally Human (-22 or -42 points).
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Variation: Human-Klingon Hybrid - Culturally Klingon (-27 points)
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Variation: Warrior Caste (+139 points)
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Edit: Altered point cost to reflect changes to basic Klingon Template. |
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Klingon weapons updated from Bob Portnell's GURPS 3E Star Trek, in GURPS 4E Martial Arts format.
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TL Weapon Dam. Type Reach Parry Cost Weight Bulk ST Skill Material DR HP Notes Origin |
Re: GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
Finally, some martial arts templates:
Mok'bara (6 points/10 points)
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Starfleet Unarmed Combat (4 points/9 points)
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Suus Manha (4 points/10 points)
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Re: GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
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This doesn't come up much until you see whoel populations (alien of gene-mod humans) with Longevity and high mods to HT for Aging (TL-3 mostly bt also Fit).. Assuming a TL of 11^ that's a mod of +8 and even a bog-standard human with HT 10 has failed only 1 Aging roll for each attribute at age 87 (54 rolls for eah attribute) i.e. he fails only on 17s or 18s though these do count as crit fails and cost him 2 pts.Possibly relevant to the Picard series. An alien race with the same TL but Longevity and +1 HT and Fit probably hasn't lost any Attribute pts at 87. They lose only 1 pt out of 216 Aging rolls. They might start slowing down a little (1p) by age 102 but probably don't start losing pt number 2 until after age 125. So the very gray but still hearty Klingons (Kang, Kor and Kolos?) seen on DS( at ages that must have been in their 140s might have gotten there jsut with Longevity rather than needing Extended Lifespan.. This has been only a technical note on the possibilities inherant but perhaps not obvious in the Aging rules. I don't want to start a big kerfluffle. |
Re: GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
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High HT, Extended Lifespan, HTK, and the rest of the physical traits are my attempt to model Brak'lul, multiple organ redundancy. If somebody can come up with a more accurate method of modeling a species which has two or more of just about every organ, I'd love to know about it! If anything, my basic Klingon template is too stingy on the abilities, so that "redshirt" level Klingons die almost as fast as humans. Individual Klingons could easily have increased ST, HT, HP, Per, and Will, Discriminatory Smell, and more levels of Acute Smell/Taste, HTK, HTS, and Resistant. Combat Reflexes is also so common that I almost included it as standard. A combat monster like Worf could easily start with a modified racial template cost of over 100 points. |
Re: GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
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The impression I get is that other than cosmetic aging - like graying hair and a few wrinkles - Klingons remain just as dangerous as warriors well past their 150th birthday, assuming that they don't die in battle before then. With HT 11+ and +8 due to TL (actually, more like +5 because Klingons are seriously retarded in Medicine), you get the much the same effects as Longevity without needing that trait. |
Re: GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
Oh My Sweet Kahless!!
The Age thing? Those three individual Klingons had a very special circumstance - they could not 'die' until their Blood Oath was satisfied ... Real, average, every day, every other Klingons age pretty much like Humans do - Klingons DO NOT have unusual longevity. See my avatar? (profile pic?) That really IS 'me' in Klingon makeup and uniform. (Years ago met and chatted with Sean Punch, Andrew Hackard, and Steve Jackson himself while I was in my Klingon gear at Gen Con) When those "Deep Space Nine" episodes first aired their unusually long life span was hotly debated and talked abut within Klingon fandom. The most elegant solution is that they were unusual and a special case. -Ed C. - |
Re: GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
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Also, if you add in the tribble/time travel esiode there are at least 4 Kingons you have to explain. |
Re: GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
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I can see why the extended lifespan thing would annoy a lot of fans. Clearly, it's a cheesy way to work Klingon characters from TOS into late 24th century story arcs. Fan service gone wrong. Arguably, though, Extended Lifespan/Longevity fits into the whole concept of Brak'lul. Klingons are hard to kill, whatever the reason. If Extended Lifespan/Longevity just applies to a lucky few, however, it would be interesting to work out a plausible explanation as to why they live so long. It could be good genes, sheer cussedness, or some sort of supernatural or temporal mojo. |
Re: GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
My ulterior motive for dropping three pages of solid text onto this thread was to get feedback on the Klingon templates.
So far, I take smug satisfaction that the biggest criticism is so far is a relatively minor quibble about Extended Lifespand/Longevity, and whether Klingons should have it. My game design problem with the Klingons is that, as the quintessential ST "mook level" (gin'tak-carrier?) bad guys, they should die like flies and any competent red shirt should be able to handle at least two each in a barroom brawl. That implies a low-point character template, with at least one physical flaw that PCs can exploit. On the other hand, TNG, DS9, and DIS established Klingons as being tough, with "supporting cast"/"minor boss" level characters being seriously scary, and hero-level characters like Worf being bat'leth-slinging forces of nature. That implies a point-optimized, high-level character template, with no serious physical limitations and mental limitations which are good for roleplaying. (E.g., Worf's competing Klingon/Starfleet Codes of Honor get a serious workout over the course of TNG & DS9.) The combination of Klingon racial template, plus the Warrior training template, makes your average Klingon warrior a melee/unarmed combat monster compared to your average human/humanoid Starfleet character. Logic dictates that you don't cheese off the lumpy-headed, sharp-toothed guy in the funky leather armor, or at least get some distance and take him out with a phaser, yet SF extras are seen mixing it up with Klingon warriors all the time without getting beaten to a pulp. How should I square this circle? One possibility is to create a mook-level NPC/monster template which provides "Klingon-like" opponents for Action-style SF adventures. The only difference from human mooks is that, even though they drop like autumn leaves once combat starts, they don't die immediately (or get better if SF takes pity on them and beams them into sickbay). |
Re: GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
Klingons...
The Klingon issue in general...in the 2260s. Since my campaign is set in ' 2261' - halfway between TOS and "Strange New Worlds" I have to decide 'which' version of Klingons to have as NPC adversaries. I have decided to do both "smooth headed or 'augment' style Klingons and normal Bumpy or ridge headed Klingons that we know from every version of "Star Trek". Now I have to choose which of the templates provided by Mr Pursuivant to use - one for smooth headed and one for ridge headed. Also, if any of those templates match up with the Prime Directive templates in the GCA version of things in the Star Trek universe. - Ed C. |
Re: GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
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My idea was to make the child survivors more "augment-like," with a tendency towards nasty mental disadvantages and corresponding Social Stigma in larger Klingon society.* That would explain the split between Klingon behavior in the TOS/TAS era and the Movie/TNG-era. Quote:
You know your gaming group better than I, but if I were designing an adventure, I'd have a full Klingon, with warrior and Klingon Imperial Navy training, and a bit of experience, as the "big bad." Below him/her, I'd have a couple of scheming Augment-Virus Klingons or a less powerful Full Klingon. I'd then use stripped down full Klingon templates to represent "elite mooks," and the PD Klingon racial template to represent "mook level" Augment-Virus Klingon cannon fodder. If you have "mixed" crews, there might be tension and intolerance between "full" Klingons and augment-virus survivors. If your players are sharp, they might be able to suss out the social tensions and exploit them. IIRC, PD occupational templates would work well for Klingon characters. *[Head-Canon] Different-looking Klingons represent different ethnicities, who historically owed allegiance to a particular noble house. The noble houses originally had control over various regions of Quonos and then expanded into space in different directions, taking their people with them. Sort of as if the U.S., the Chinese, and various other major nations independently explored space and founded colonies. That also explains the huge number of Klingon dialects still used in the 22nd century, when other species had mostly settled on a single standardized language. The victims of the Augment Virus belonged to just one or two extended houses which controlled space near the Federation border, but not all members of the house were affected. That explains why you only see the Augment Virus Klingons in TOS, but nobody remarks on Worf's appearance during the DS9 episode, "Trials and Tribble-ations." My logic for Augment-Virus Klingons mental and social disads is that Worf's response to O'Brien's comment, "Those are Klingons?" was "We do not talk about it," with the strong subtext that any further discussion would start a fight. Given Worf's personality, that implies that there was something inherently dishonorable or shameful about the augment-virus Klingons' very existence, to the point that it galls honor-driven Klingons over a century later. That suggests that they collectively behaved in a way that brought historical disgrace and dishonor to the Klingon empire. If dialogue from Discovery is to be believed, Augment-Virus Klingons might have been responsible for most of the atrocities against the Federation as they rampaged through Federation space during the Klingon-Federation War. They might have capped off their shameful behavior with a serious betrayal of the Klingon Empire, such as an alliance with the Romulans. That would also explain Klingon ships in Romulan service. Sometime between 2269 and 2279, they did something so atrocious that they were exterminated and the few honorable survivors had to change their appearance to survive.[/head canon] |
Re: GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
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Your template has an ordinary Klingon getting +5 (HT, Fit, resistant) against poison and disease compared to a normal human. That seems a bit extreme. Even +1 is a pretty big bonus on a racial level. Likewise, I think you may be overthinking the brak'lul. The practical effect is that a Klingon is very hard to kill. Just Fit, HT+1 and Hard to Kill 1 gives a Klingon +2 on all HT resistance rolls and +3 on death checks, compared to humans. That plus a couple extra HPs seems sufficient. So maybe +1 ST [10], +1 HT [10], +2 HP [4], Fit [5], DR (Tough Skin) 1 [3], Hard to Kill 1 [2], Sharp Teeth [1], Longevity [2], Bad Temper [-10], Odious Racial Habit [-5], Chauvinistic [-1], Proud [-1] Total Cost 20 after Disadvantages. Maybe Fearlessness & High Pain Threshold but again that could be part of warrior training. Note: Longevity could be rationalized as a side effect of the brak'lul. I lean toward Klingons just being very long lived but rarely suffering natural deaths. As for the smooth browed Klingons, I think they might loose some Disadvantages as well as Advantages. The TOS era Klingons are more unified as a society and seem to show better impulse control as individuals. If the virus victims were the majority of society, the original Klingons might have nominally been regarded as superior but informally regarded as too violent and undisciplined. Ironically, the virus may have made Klingons less effective as close combat fighters but more effective at waging war. Perhaps the cure was a Section 31 operation? Also a while back I came up with an admittedly unserious martial arts system for Starfleet in the TOS/SNW/DSC era. For the curious. |
Re: GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
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Klingons suffer badly from what I call "protagonist species syndrome," where racial traits get piled on as plot points or to make a protagonist character of that species more impressive. With both Worf and B'Elanna Torres as protagonist characters across all three of the TNG-era ST shows, Klingons went from being no tougher than humans in TOS to incredibly hard to kill by the end of the TNG era. (And don't get me started on Vulcans . . .) Klingons, as a species, are routinely described as being stronger and much tougher than humans, with at least one spare vital organ for each organ in their body. They've also clearly got better skull and spine DR, and possibly better DR overall. If there's a trait in my templates that I can't document, it goes to optional status or gets removed. Quote:
Torres is a bit more reasonable, in part because she's a half-Klingon Starfleet Academy dropout with serious neuroses. Her omni-competence by the end of Voyager mostly comes from her technical skills, but she's also established as being a competent fighter. Quote:
I await the day when there's a ST series that focuses on ordinary people, like a struggling Klingon opera singer, a Vulcan shuttle mechanic, or a Tellarite dabo girl. Quote:
By authoritative, I mean a character in a position to know delivering plot exposition. For example, if Sisko says that Vulcans are three times stronger than humans, it's because he has personal experience and it's relevant to the plot. Martok bragging when he's in his cups might count as authoritative, but only if it's something that subsequently gets borne out by plot developments or if other people in a position to know - and to contradict - accept his statements at full value. Quote:
First, SF personnel who pick a fight with a Klingon are going to be physically fit and good fighters. The geeky blue shirts will try to use diplomacy and back away slowly. (In a serious fight, they run or die.) Second, just because you wear the Klingon Defense Force uniform doesn't mean you're a warrior. The sort of Klingons who pick fights might be non-warrior caste schlubs who are working off their frustrations or desperately trying to prove their warrior credibility. After all, if your normal job is cleaning plasma intake manifolds or tending the targ herd, and you take endless abuse from people who will kill you if you fight back, beating up the occasional Starfleet smooth-head is just "percussive therapy" to keep you sane. Third, Klingons, being descendants of pack predators and having a laissez-faire attitude towards emergency medicine, might have an instinctive understanding of when to back off the violence. If you're hit, as long as your opponent isn't trying to kill you at the moment, it's better to stay down before you're hurt too badly to heal. He's top targ, at least for now; lick your wounds and live to plot revenge. That means that a lot of "dead" or "knocked out" Klingons might be playing possum while they reassess the tactical situation/their career options. Either that, or they're luring unwary opponents into position for a back shot. Quote:
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They would also have to learn how to operate and gain power on the margins of Klingon society, so of course they'll develop traits and tactics that standard Klingons would view as dishonorable. |
Re: GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?
Yay - rediscovered this thread from Two years ago. Had my most recent game session this past Friday evening.
Finally getting around to making those Caitian NPCs I mentioned back then. Keeping track we just had our 26th episode or game session after attemoting two sessions a month but its been closer to once a month. Any more suggestions for either Caitian or Saurian characters? We have now seen more of the "Linus" character on Star Trek Discovery since I first posted the opening questions. -Ed C. |
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