Can an Image Spell be disbelieved?
 

It was brought to my attention that such topic discussions occurring on the SJG forums have a better recall record for future use. This is why I'm asking for some duplication of the Discord discussion on this forum.

There was a great discussion on Discord as to whether Images can be disbelieved. I believe that there was some consensus after the discussion that Images cannot be disbelieved. If this is wrong, please provide your input.

This interesting discussion kind of turned my previous executions upside down. I has always treated Images the same as illusions in that they could be use a turn attacking them and watch them disappear after a successful hit or, You could use a turn to disbelieve them. However, the discord discussion revealed that the Image doesn't clearly lend itself to being disbelieved.

This is a game changer for the Image spell and it ensures that it's not useless against an Illusion spell. This will be explained in a post later in this thread.

I ask the Discord discussion participants to post their ITL or other references that supported their positions either for or against being able to disbelieving an Image.

Re: Can an Image Spell be disbelieved?
 

Wizard rulebook page 17 "or the figure was NOT an illusion"
ITL 138 "if the figure was not an illusion"

Re: Can an Image Spell be disbelieved?
 

Throw in a house-rule upgrade like PERSISTENT IMAGE (i.e. an 'image' that doesn’t disappear when touched) and you can have some real fun.

Re: Can an Image Spell be disbelieved?
 

Like Henry, my interpretation is based on the fact that in every instance where 'disbelief' is discussed, images are never mentioned.

From a design intent standpoint, I tend to see 'disbelief' as a check against the power that illusions have to do actual harm... a check that isn't required for images.

Re: Can an Image Spell be disbelieved?
 

Double cost version of Maintain Image enchantment that recreates the image after a minute of downtime would match to a lot of the genre material for images over pits and such.

Re: Can an Image Spell be disbelieved?
 

Hi Bill,
Disbelief only breaks illusions. Images get broken by touch.

This is one of the few useful things an image can give you: many attempts to disbelieve it. For the mere cost of 1 ST, you can waste several of your foes' turns in moving only 1 and attempting disbelief.

Scouting, intimidation, cloning self/others/illusions are the other main uses for images.

Re: Can an Image Spell be disbelieved?
 

This means that all those pesky animals won't be able to disbelieve the image either.

Re: Can an Image Spell be disbelieved?
 

Ah, but do they see the Image? If you see a slime react to an Image, then you know it's not an Illusion, right? And so you change your tactics accordingly. Maybe there's a reason to carry around a pet slime? :)

Re: Can an Image Spell be disbelieved?
 

Admiral Thrawn, in Timothy Zahn's Star Wars novels, used to carry around a couple of creatures who suppressed the use of the force locally. This isn't entirely different.

Re: Can an Image Spell be disbelieved?
 

Thanks guys.

This summarizes the main points of the reasoning for the general consensus on Discord that Images can't be disbelieved.

While this doesn't heavily impact my past games where Images were able to be disbelieved. it is a game changer in providing more value to images and image spells.

Re: Can an Image Spell be disbelieved?
 

I found the authoritive statement on this.

The SpaceGamer #15 Wizard: a designer's introduction by Steve Jackson p 8. Steve gives a description of some foes wasting their time trying to disbelieve a summoned creature.
"Since You (the GM) make the roll for his attempt to disbelieve, he may not catch on right away. (Similarly, you may trick him into trying to disbelieve an image . . . which won't go away until HIT.)"