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-   -   Gravity model of trade volumes (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=18304)

Anthony 08-01-2006 11:42 AM

Re: Gravity model of trade volumes
 
I would bet it was based on the gravity trade model in GT:FT, which is using a 2d map where 1/D makes sense. It's unclear what the exponent should be on a 3d map, we don't have any real-world models to look at (the terrestrial case is generally close enough to 2d that it can be called 2d).

thrash 08-01-2006 12:02 PM

Re: Gravity model of trade volumes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony
I would bet it was based on the gravity trade model in GT:FT, which is using a 2d map where 1/D makes sense.

Can't be, since the gravity trade model in GT:FT uses 1/D^2 (although it is concealed by the logarithms used in the actual tables).

It looks like a simple omission -- there should be another variable as an exponent on the distance factor.

Quote:

It's unclear what the exponent should be on a 3d map, we don't have any real-world models to look at (the terrestrial case is generally close enough to 2d that it can be called 2d).
When I asked Jim Maclean (the professional economist behind GT:FT, for those who don't know) he suggested that 1/D^3 was probably close enough.

Part of the problem with this subject is that the gravity trade model is an empirical observation, not a theoretical result. There are a number of competing explanations for why it works across such a wide range of applications -- and thus, at least as many possible ways to extend it to three dimensions.

The actual exponent for international trade is more like 1.9 than 2.0, by the way, but that's close enough to the square to make "gravity model" a reasonably accurate description.

Anthony 08-01-2006 12:19 PM

Re: Gravity model of trade volumes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thrash
Can't be, since the gravity trade model in GT:FT uses 1/D^2 (although it is concealed by the logarithms used in the actual tables).

Good point. It might be simple reading on the gravity trade model, most of which seem to use an exponent fairly close to 1. I suspect the real problem is that remoteness is ignored and that most interstellar polities are rather limited in size.

whswhs 08-01-2006 01:49 PM

Re: Gravity model of trade volumes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zogo
I would argue that such a point still exists for you whswhs. Would you play in a system where you needed to do balistics equations everytime someone fired a projectile weapon? ;-)

No, but I'm not talking about doing it in a game. I have in fact worked out interplanetary orbital trajectories for pleasure, and that's a lot like doing firearm ballistics. But doing it in a game would be a mistake, because the actual play of games is devoted to other sorts of fun.

DrTemp 08-01-2006 03:13 PM

Re: Gravity model of trade volumes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thrash
Can't be, since the gravity trade model in GT:FT uses 1/D^2 (although it is concealed by the logarithms used in the actual tables).

It looks like a simple omission -- there should be another variable as an exponent on the distance factor.

When I asked Jim Maclean (the professional economist behind GT:FT, for those who don't know) he suggested that 1/D^3 was probably close enough.
[...]

So... has anyone submitted this as an erratum yet?

Jon F. Zeigler 08-01-2006 06:41 PM

Re: Gravity model of trade volumes
 
I'm over a thousand miles away from my notes, and I don't recall enough to know whether there's just a dropped exponent there, but I suspect there is. What we've really got here is the economic equivalent of Olbers' paradox - and just as the sky is dark at night, you really don't want your model predicting an infinite amount of trade coming in to every world in the galaxy.

If you lot can agree on a reasonable value for the exponent in a three-dimensional universe, and submit an erratum, I'd be happy to nod my head and say "yes" when the buck gets passed to my desk.

Anthony 08-01-2006 07:30 PM

Re: Gravity model of trade volumes
 
The missing factor on trade models is the fact that the larger the network of potential trade partners, the lower the trade with any given partner. That's what would actually prevent Olber's Paradox in this case, though adjusting the exponent for range may not be a bad idea regardless.

GoodGame 08-01-2006 07:37 PM

Re: Gravity model of trade volumes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Qoltar
You know if you over-analyze ANYTHING this way the end result is "too many numbers , not enough FUN! "

- E.W. Charlton
(Less talk, more Bloodwine!)


But still if you know better on a subject, it's hard to sometimes let the grossly unrealistic stuff just fly. Myself, I just picked up Business for Dummies, so this is all news to be.

DrTemp 08-01-2006 11:18 PM

Re: Gravity model of trade volumes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agemegos
[...]
I suggest 3.
[...]

For 3D maps, that is. Maybe one could add "^(number of dimensions on the map)" to the formula in Space. That way, some Infinite Worlds in Space version with 3+1 dimenions would be covered, too, as would be Traveller-like settings with some kind of two-dimensional "jump space structure".

Anders 08-02-2006 02:01 AM

Re: Gravity model of trade volumes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agemegos
But the real problem with taking into account the network of potential trade partners is that it requires that you to generate all the planets in the campaign. You can do that with a computer and a basic knowledge of programming. And in fact I am tempted to find a FORTRAN compiler for my Mac or to familiarise myself with one of the funky newfangled languages you youngsters program in and do just that. There are, however, two reasons why the Space rules cannot take that approach.

A real man generates all the systems randomly, by hand. Then he dies of old age.


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