Edged Rapier
 

If used with Broadsword skill (even as a default from Rapier skill) it appears that the Edged Rapier would not count as a fencing weapon and would thus be able to parry flails. Is this correct?

Re: Edged Rapier
 

It is in mainline Gurps.

Re: Edged Rapier
 

Regular GURPS includes a rule to the effect that fencing weapons that are heavy enough to be used with a non-fencing skill are considered substantial enough to parry flails as a normal weapon (whichever skill they are being used with at the time). I don't know if Dungeon Fantasy includes similar ruling, but it would be a reasonable house rule.

Re: Edged Rapier
 

The Parry column of the Edged Rapier entry when used with the Broadsword skill (Adventurers page 99) says "0", and not "0F". I think your understanding is correct.

Re: Edged Rapier
 

Its the skill that prevents the weapon from parrying a flail, not the weapon itself. So if a weapon is useable with several skills, and one of those skills is not a "fencing" skill, then you can use said weapon to parry flails.

Re: Edged Rapier
 

That makes no sense. The reason fencing weapons can't parry flails is that they are thin and flimsy. The skill used doesn't influence blade width.

Re: Edged Rapier
 

The edged rapier weighs 3 pounds, which is the same weight as a broadsword. True, it is longer, and thus thinner. But it’s not as if it is “too light” to parry a flail. The designers clearly intend this, since a combatant explicitly can use an edged rapier with the broadsword skill, i.e., as a broadsword (Adventurers, p. 99). Notably, none of the other fencing swords, like the rapier (2.75 lbs), light rapier (2 lbs) or saber (2 lbs) can be used with that skill.

Having recently watched a Matt Easton (scholagladiatoria) video on sword grip lengths, one can imagine that the grip one uses, or the technique used, could affect one’s ability to parry. Therefore, it does make sense that when a combatant uses an edged rapier with the rapier skill,he or she gets the 0F parry ability, whereas when he or she fights with it using the broadsword skill, he or she doesn’t get the +3 retreat bonus (parry of 0 as opposed to 0F), but still can parry a flail.

Re: Edged Rapier
 

Then the question becomes, can my swashbuckler attack with the edged rapier using the rapier skill and then parry a flail using the default broadsword skill?

Re: Edged Rapier
 

Which itself doesn't really make sense in an actual combat weapon. I'm not entirely convinced even for modern sporting equipment. Stick something rigid and strong enough not to break in the path of a flail and I fail to see how it is less effective at preventing it from moving through for being a rapier and not a broadsword blade.

I suspect it's there to have flails remain effective against fencing parries when fencing parries were significantly better than other parries at 2/3 skill (and hence wouldn't be severely downgraded by a penalty that wasn't so big non-fencing weapons wouldn't have a chance at all) and just held on when that went away

Re: Edged Rapier
 

I believe that would require the Form Mastery Perk. It's what ISTR for Spear/Staff tricks.

Re: Edged Rapier
 

I think it could influence what part of the blade is being parried with.

In Rapier mode the blade is fully extended and even horizontal and weapons are deflected with the "foible".

In Broadsword mode the stance is not so thrust heavy and weapons can be deflected with the "forte" which is the stronger and stiffer part of the blade nearer the hilt.

Re: Edged Rapier
 

That ^

Also, MA page 122 expands the details:

"...Any weapon that also works with a non-fencing skill –
meaning any skill other than Main-Gauche, Rapier, Saber,
or Smallsword – has a mass distribution that lets it parry
flails at the standard -4. Examples include the short staff,
which can use the Smallsword skill or the Shortsword skill
(treat it as a baton), and any rapier heavy enough to use with
the Broadsword skill."

Re: Edged Rapier
 

Honestly, the flail rule isn't super realistic for any weapon and seems to mostly be a way to make flexible weapons seem cool and different.

Re: Edged Rapier
 

That provides a pretty definitive Official Published Answer (though it is listed as optional detail). The same page makes clear that the skill doesn't matter; it's purely a matter of the weapon properties.

So, to the OP: If you go by Martial Arts, your edged rapier can parry flails normally, regardless of skill.

Re: Edged Rapier
 

The Definitive Official Published Answer for GURPS. Which the GM is free to use in their DFRPG game.

The Definitive Official Published Answer for DFRPG is that the Edged Rapier used with the Broadsword skill has Parry 0 (can parry flails at -4), but if it is used with the Rapier Skill it has Parry 0F (cannot parry flails).

Re: Edged Rapier
 

My bad. I was bouncing between the two forums and forgot which I was on.

For DFRPG, I think you've got the right answer...

So, a DFRPG fighter with an edged rapier and Rapier-18 skill only, wanting to parry a flail, could use Broadsword-14 (default from Rapier) to parry, with a Parry of 14/2 + 3 = Parry 10, -4 vs a flail = 6 or less, before any other mods.

I hope I've got that right. (And if I do: That poor Parry is better than no Parry at all using Rapier skill, but I'm thinking a Dodge is the way to go here.)

Re: Edged Rapier
 

Agreed! The MA rule is great, and if people want to use that in DFRPG, as a house rule, that works great.