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-   -   should a "Ricochet" attack using boomerang be possible in realistic games? how hard? (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=177944)

corwyn 02-11-2022 05:19 PM

Re: should a "Ricochet" attack using boomerang be possible in realistic games? how ha
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by naloth (Post 2415548)
I've done it two different ways:
- Originally I made the shield a gadget with a ricochet or multiple target IA. Effectively the "return to hand" was a special effect.

- My preferred approach now is to use Imbuements. Cap and Thor use Project Blow so their weapons "return" at the end of the turn. Batman can explain any number of tricks as throwing batarangs (Annihilating Weapon + Telescoping + Extra Attack or Rapid Strike in this case).

I tend not to make Mjolnir a gadget at all. There are only a handful of people in the universe who could actually pick it up, let alone steal it (granted one of them is a teammate), and it always returns. The fact that it is an object that he can throw is a special effect.

RGTraynor 02-11-2022 05:45 PM

Re: should a "Ricochet" attack using boomerang be possible in realistic games? how ha
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2415536)
In a realistic game, it simply doesn't work because objects don't actually bounce that way.

+1. They just don't.

Now if you want to replace the word "realistic" with "cinematic," then by all means toss in whatever Enhancements/caveats one pleases.

Plane 02-11-2022 06:39 PM

Re: should a "Ricochet" attack using boomerang be possible in realistic games? how ha
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2415536)
In a realistic game, it simply doesn't work because objects don't actually bounce that way.

Are you saying it's impossible for a boomerang to bounce off a physical object and retain enough kinetic force to disarm a man?

Anthony 02-11-2022 06:47 PM

Re: should a "Ricochet" attack using boomerang be possible in realistic games? how ha
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Plane (Post 2416178)
Are you saying it's impossible for a boomerang to bounce off a physical object and retain enough kinetic force to disarm a man?

It might retain enough energy, but it won't retain enough accuracy. After the first impact, it's on a tumbling non-aerodynamic trajectory in a mostly random direction, and there's not really much skill can do about it. Replace the boomerang with a hard rubber ball and it would maybe be possible.

Farmer 02-11-2022 08:10 PM

Re: should a "Ricochet" attack using boomerang be possible in realistic games? how ha
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Plane (Post 2416178)
Are you saying it's impossible for a boomerang to bounce off a physical object and retain enough kinetic force to disarm a man?

As a kid I threw boomerangs at things often enough - not just high in the air to get them to return.

Bear in mind they are rotating and aligned mostly parallel to the ground and rely on that to generate lift. If you interfere with that (by hitting something) it tends to randomly.go somewhere very close with not much force and fall to the ground. Particularly if it strikes against the rotation.

It's not that it won't bounce, it's that it is not controllable or predictable, and usually doesn't have much energy left. A deliberate ricochet would be very, very hard because of the rotation - you can't know which part of the boomerang will hit first.

Agemegos 02-11-2022 08:19 PM

Re: should a "Ricochet" attack using boomerang be possible in realistic games? how ha
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Plane (Post 2416178)
Are you saying it's impossible for a boomerang to bounce off a physical object and retain enough kinetic force to disarm a man?

He might not be, but I will. It’s not a matter of “kinetic force”, its a matter of rotation. A flying boomerang is a rotating wing, and there is no way for it to maintain the necessary speed or plane of rotation through a collision. After it hits something a boomerang is a tumbling stick.

naloth 02-11-2022 11:39 PM

Re: should a "Ricochet" attack using boomerang be possible in realistic games? how ha
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by corwyn (Post 2416168)
I tend not to make Mjolnir a gadget at all. There are only a handful of people in the universe who could actually pick it up, let alone steal it (granted one of them is a teammate), and it always returns. The fact that it is an object that he can throw is a special effect.

While Thor's hammer has been used by more people (more than a dozen and counting) than any gadget I've had in even long running games, I'd agree that it shouldn't qualify for "Can Be Stolen".

Thor does lose access his hammer quite often even though it's usually not stolen. It functions more like equipment than he usually has than an intrinsic power with a hammer effect. We had a thread about gadgets that can be taken from you or that you might have to surrender voluntarily. The net result was that's worth about -10%.

Plane 02-12-2022 02:50 AM

Re: should a "Ricochet" attack using boomerang be possible in realistic games? how ha
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2416179)
it won't retain enough accuracy
on a tumbling non-aerodynamic trajectory in a mostly random direction
not really much skill can do about it

Since it's not truly random and since skill has no upper limit in GURPS seems like it's just a matter of the proper penalties. You and I can't conceive of planning the aerodynamics because we're not skill 40+ ultradetectives

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farmer (Post 2416185)
As a kid I threw boomerangs at things often enough - not just high in the air to get them to return.

Bear in mind they are rotating and aligned mostly parallel to the ground and rely on that to generate lift. If you interfere with that (by hitting something) it tends to randomly.go somewhere very close with not much force

I think it only seems random because it's hard to control exactly which part hits exactly what part of your target, but high-skill Bats could prob do that.

As far as "not much force", Batman probably throws it super-hard compared to us, so he'd have more left over.

A bigger question might be "does the burglar drop his gun so easily that the gun doesn't provide enough resistance to bounce off". You'd need to predict the firmness of the grip to figure the bouncing angle since how the gun shifts in response to getting hit can alter that angle of ricochet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agemegos (Post 2416187)
He might not be, but I will. It’s not a matter of “kinetic force”, its a matter of rotation. A flying boomerang is a rotating wing, and there is no way for it to maintain the necessary speed or plane of rotation through a collision. After it hits something a boomerang is a tumbling stick.

Obviously initials horizontal speed plus rotational speed will drop, but there's bound to be some backlash horizontal momentum that could be redirected a couple feet away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by naloth (Post 2416217)
While Thor's hammer has been used by more people (more than a dozen and counting) than any gadget I've had in even long running games, I'd agree that it shouldn't qualify for "Can Be Stolen".

The issue with him is it's only Can Be Stolen to the minority of people who either have that right mix of physical strength and/or purity of heart.

I might have a gadget that is "requires IQ roll, hard to use -12" that's largely unusable by average people who aren't geniuses like my char... but there isn't really any 'requires ST roll' limitation like for other attributes.

Also something like "required disadvantage" for his Code of Honor?

Farmer 02-12-2022 03:32 AM

Re: should a "Ricochet" attack using boomerang be possible in realistic games? how ha
 
Plane - the question posed was "realistic". The answer is "no".

WingedKagouti 02-12-2022 05:37 AM

Re: should a "Ricochet" attack using boomerang be possible in realistic games? how ha
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Plane (Post 2416224)
Since it's not truly random and since skill has no upper limit in GURPS seems like it's just a matter of the proper penalties. You and I can't conceive of planning the aerodynamics because we're not skill 40+ ultradetectives

A realistic game would not have a character with 30+ skill.


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