Originally Posted by Michael Thayne (Post 2403356)

The more I think about this, the more it feels like Suspend Mana and Drain Mana are absolutely essential to wizardly magic working as intended. One interesting thing about these spells is that Drain Mana in particular is vastly cheaper than most other methods if you want lasting protection for an area (the one partial exception I see is Pentagram, and because its cost scales with area rather than radius, it's really only cheaper if you're protecting a single hex). In a world where wizardly magic is the only type, I expect small areas that have been subject to Drain Mana would be extremely common and serve a variety of purposes: jail cells, "safe rooms", or simply places where people can talk with a guarantee they won't be scried upon. Dungeon Fantasy complicates things because Drain Mana will only protect you against one of several types of hostile magic, but the spell might at least be popular among clerics who want to maximize their "home field advantage" in their temples, or at least certain sections thereof.

Originally Posted by Taneli (Post 2403473)

I left wild mana out as it's complicated.

Originally Posted by Taneli (Post 2403474)

Those spells are pretty ugly to cast, though. A critical failure with Suspend Mana loses you one level of Magery for 2d days, and has a change to lose it forever, while a critical failure with the Drain Mana just loses you that level of Magery forever.

Also, I'm not entirely sure if the Suspend Mana and Drain Mana on the DF Cleric's list are supposed to affect mana or sanctity, probably mana. If they have a critical failure with those spells, they're going to lose a level of PI, that's for sure.

But yeah, in a place like Yrth, there's bound to be plenty of no mana places around as the result of mages of the old draining places for their own use (and maybe using a chunk of their power in the process).

Originally Posted by Taneli (Post 2403474)

Those spells are pretty ugly to cast, though. A critical failure with Suspend Mana loses you one level of Magery for 2d days, and has a change to lose it forever, while a critical failure with the Drain Mana just loses you that level of Magery forever.

Also, I'm not entirely sure if the Suspend Mana and Drain Mana on the DF Cleric's list are supposed to affect mana or sanctity, probably mana. If they have a critical failure with those spells, they're going to lose a level of PI, that's for sure.

But yeah, in a place like Yrth, there's bound to be plenty of no mana places around as the result of mages of the old draining places for their own use (and maybe using a chunk of their power in the process).

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne (Post 2403532)

I would assume Suspend Mana and Drain Mana effect mana even when cast by a cleric. It seems weird for clerics to directly be lowering sanctity, since high sanctity for Good generally means low sanctity for Evil and vice versa.

Originally Posted by maximara (Post 2403536)

Unless you hold that sanctity is a special form of Aspected Mana (as on Roma Arcana) that makes no sense. The default is mana and sanctity don't interact..

Originally Posted by David Johnston2 (Post 2403538)

The default is that mana and sanctity are are different. That doesn't mean that a sanctity fueled "spell" can't affect mana. There are after all, such things as gods of magic.

Originally Posted by maximara (Post 2403545)

Reread the post I was replying to:

"I would assume Suspend Mana and Drain Mana effect mana even when cast by a cleric. It seems weird for clerics to directly be lowering sanctity, since high sanctity for Good generally means low sanctity for Evil and vice versa."

Why would changing mana have any effect on sanctity unless you are following Roma Archana guidelines?

Originally Posted by David Johnston2 (Post 2403546)

Yeah, that's a statement that the cleric versions of the spell still work on mana rather than being changed to acting to lower sanctity.

Originally Posted by maximara (Post 2403547)

I might add that in Classic a cleric could use Consecrate and Desecrate to directly and quickly change sanctity levels (GURPS Religion p 103)

It would kind of weird for a deity of magic (like Isis) to allow their clerics to cast Suspend Mana or Drain Mana as it is effectively cuts into their worship which if they are under 'get everything' rules hurts them.
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