Re: Corco's Villa
 

ok, thank you!

Re: Corco's Villa
 

TGLS, your character sheet is asking me to log into one-drive... I'd like to avoid doing that.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

OK, I refreshed the link; not sure if Microsoft shifted its mass and changed the way share links work or not. Here's also a dropbox mirror if refreshing the link didn't work.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Microsoft, Microsoft.... still failing



I can see the dropbox link. Can you put that in the post I linked to on page one of IC?

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Done. I'll update Julian's links too.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Sorry for the delay in my return. Life and stuff!

Re: Corco's Villa
 

And I'm back too now!

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Yeah, so there are three sets of comms here:

• The magic comms that can work across dimensions. These can be used to talk to each other, and to the Villa. Their use can be sensed by some of the demons... making secret occult! roll... specific talented Demon Gate-callers can sense their use, and identify the use, but not listen in.
• The Ships comms, for internal use. You haven't been granted use of these (nor have you asked). They can be used to talk to other people in the ship. The Shapeshifter may have access to these, but various channels probably keep that secure. Telruthians aren't good with electronics, so you only need to worry about social engineering rather than hacking. So the wrong channel may be available to the shapeshifter.
• Your Swarm Network. It is limited to the submarine, and you can only call each other and the swarms. This is pretty secure. The worst than can happen is someone starts attacking the swarms to destroy the network.

Clear as Mud?

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Re: Corco's Villa
 

The Christmas season has begun... my posting is likely to be spotty until January. Have fun!

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Matrix, I think it's your go.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Ok, so I'm guessing template looks something like this:
You specified "monster", so I added a level of size and +10 ST

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Pressure Support isn't really needed unless the creature needs to cross into widely different zones... it can be set to be optimized for the current zone...

I was thinking it would be no legs aquatic, so all limbs would be uniform arms.

I was thinking of it having rows of serrated blades it could whip out as well and beef up the natural weapons, but I haven't had a chance to break it down, so what you've done will work.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Cool. Saving this template:

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Life has been crazy and I haven't been able to make the time to do this porperly... I'm not really happy with the template.

I planned a cutting natural attack and a ranged variation... and I was trying to decide between a clinging aspect to attach to the sub, or incrreased swim speed to be able to outpace it... and I'm sure I can do something more interesting with the senses for the deep.

Sorry to ask for a pause for me to fix this, but I feel like I keep going into these bits with half-assed concepts I haven't the life bandwidth to get right.

Let me try and carve some time out today and I'll post an update tonight

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Hey, no problem. There's a reason I have three of these going at once.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Ok, so we will trade the dragon template triats....
For the sea monster traits here,

Should work... Fighting strength, and quick enough to keep up with the sub. I didn't add a ranged option, but none of the advantage based ones are worth a damn in the water, so Vassarious can use the rifles at default until they are close enough for melee.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Just a few questions:

How does the no eyes work? is the creature blind? or does it have enough eyes that it may as well not have an eye location?

I'd prefer the move be +5 move [25] and a half level of enhanced move [10].

could you justify what about these limbs makes them really good at parrying? I'm imagining giant serrated tentacles, which seem like they would parry like swords.

The rest of it looks good.

I would object to swinging damage underwater, but the official rules are not with me (they only care about reach), so I won't. I'll just scowl at it.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

The no eyes is meant to have them be distributed as mini-eye arrays.

I'm envisioning kind of a giant, mutant cross between a star-fish and sea urchin...

Prefer or require? Because I prefer the Move, clearly it is a big tactical difference... If my basic move is not enough to keep up with the sub, Vassarious will be outpaced and will have to be tethered to the sub, left behind, or need continue to take only move maneuvers to keep up.

Without a meaningful ranged attack (Vassarious has no gun skills to be competent at the underwater rifle) or significant speed, there is little point in being outside the sub (especially given my concern that the 10 second transformation makes it quite difficult for Vassarious to get inside to defend the sub's interior).

If the change is required, how about we keep the points the same and go Move +6 and Enhanced Move 1? Otherwise I suppose the spare points can go into thickening their skin a bit.
A combination of serrated edge claw and spine like extrusions along the limb that can catch and grip coming off from multiple angles.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

super quick flexible free-swimming enchidoderm...

Lots of little eyes works. You don't have 360 degree vision a consequence of that, so the eyes are concentrated in a direction.

Its a prefer. We can use move +10

I'm mentally trying to build art for this. Maybe I'll try some real sculpture.

I'm trying to justify all these turbulent edges and the fast underwater speed... I think it will work.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

I'd like to keep the Move +10 then, to be able to keep up with the sub without a straight line full move.

Hmn, 360 Vision would make sense. I might have to drop the number of arms if I want to add it. Maybe I'll play with the template before Monday and see if I can squeeze it in.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Was playing with adding 360 vision and realized I didn't have monstery stuff on my sea monster, and that rifles at defaut are a bad idea, so I added a ranged option to the natural attack.

Here it is as a complete replacement racial package:

Bad Smell or Frightens Animals could be appropriate as well if you were not thrilled with something else or if we wanted to add in an extra attack...

I think the ranged version would be thrust, and swing would be for melee. If you don't want chitinous flechettes, in IC post aiming can be for three rifles.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

I was trying to visualize this thing over the weekend:

Simple
Aggressive
Side View

I'm not 100% happy with the result, but it gives a much better feel for what this monster looks like.

360 vision is fine.

If the ranged weapon does impaling rather than cutting its fine. Normally I'd require a limited number of projectiles... but shapeshifter!

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Very nice! Quite close to what I was imagining! Maybe a but of webbed muscle between the arms that can flex independently and help it with it's great speed.

Thank you for your efforts!

So if we want the chitinous flechettes to impale rather than cut, that's the more expensive attack form, so we have to change the base to impaling and add the cutting as an extra damage type... and we get:


Impaling Natural Attack
(Armor Divisor (2), +50%;
Extra Damage Type, Cutting, +20%;
Good Defense, +2 to Parry, +60%;
Increased Damage, +2 per Die, +120%;
Swing Capable, Cutting, +20%;
Ranged, +100%;
Ranged, Accurate +2, Acc 5, +10%;
Increased Range, 20X, +30%;
Rapid Fire, RoF 3, +50%;
Underwater, +20%) [47]

The template was 3 points under the dragon template, but this shifts it to four points over... How dark is it down here? Would Night Vision 5 cover the vision penalties if I reduced it (or Or Night Vision 4 and a bioluminescent perk)?

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Really? I'm shocked. I flailed around shaping what it must look like based on the description. I'm happy its close! I'll have to build a world where this is a normal creature. Now who to send it at...


The darkness is pretty black down here, at least normally (-7?). I'm assuming the emperor's vessel has turned on spotlights for the fight. A bioluminescent perk is fine: its a variant on accessory.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

I saw it as a bit more disk like until it stretched out from a muscled web-like layer, but your rendering is fantastic and could be a cousin.

Come to think of it, that might do them more good than me....

Let's take Dark Vision 9 out, add Color Blindness [-10], and Bad Smell [-10] and give it Dark Vision [25] so it can be from the true deep... and maybe the real ones do have pressure support....


Or we can just give him "weak bite [-2]" to cover Dark vision 7

__________________________________________________ ____________


From the IC:
Vassarious must wait two seconds until the shark-beast comes into their 1/2 damage range at 60 yards.

On the third and successive rounds Vassarious will use Dual Weapon Attack / Throwing Art attacks.

The range penalty is -9 until they get closer than 50.. does the shark shaped one have a size modifier to consider?

Re: Corco's Villa
 

[QUOTE=the_matrix_walker;2472564]I saw it as a bit more disk like until it stretched out from a muscled web-like layer, but your rendering is fantastic and could be a cousin.[quote]
I figured that would slow it down in the water...

Lets take this one.


Yes. They all do. I should specify that. The shark, Squid, and Eel are SM+3. The dragon is SM+2.



[QUOTE=TGLS;2472508]Well surely if Halcyone can grab three people at once she can grab three clips at once. And if not I guess we're going to have to figure out the price of Extra Ready]
Fast-draw (ammo) should cover grabbing and loading three clips at once.

Remember, only you can prevent friendly fire.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Noted. Can I spend a point on it right now?

Re: Corco's Villa
 

No, as movement would follow it's plane and essentially be a skirt like swimming muscle

Except... oops. I missed Bad Grip and Horizontal when I was transferring the template, so I guess I need to add -20 in disadvantages to balance it anyway...

Ok, thanks! Now I can figure effective skill!


It has been speculated upon....

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Yes. It feels like something she would have.


You see it moving in its plane? That changes how I see it moving by a lot...


Please put everything in one spot. Bad grip, oh yeah. horizontal is weird on no-legs (semi-aquatic).

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Thos disads are from the dragon form and I replaced template parts a bit at a time and missed them. Horizontal makes no sense on an aquatic creature. Bad Grip seems inappropriate on a creature that's mostly arms... so I think I'll stick with the smell and color blindness unless you want to make changes.

disregarding ST, the Dragon template is 164 points

Re: Corco's Villa
 

What's the math on attacking once with each limb? I'm not seeing a bunch of extra attack in there...

Re: Corco's Villa
 

You asked for the math, so I had another look, I forgot to include both the +1 relative size modifier and a -1 for their relative Move of 3 in my effective skill description for that post...

So listing out the math in more GURPSY detail:

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Ok, And I remember that the techniques were basically free, but I don't remember what rule that's under. Is that just a function of the Bang Skill?


Remember you only get two seconds of aim once, for one arm.



Relative size modifier doesn't count, just absolute, I think, in standard gurps. So I think you're at +2.



I'm strongly considering requiring the Acc on natural weapons to be unchanged from the base of 3. I'm leaving it for this build, but I may add that to requirements going forward.



How is V staying with the sub? Is this a move and attack (Bulk -2), or do two arms need to be grasping the sub?

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Yes, it's a special treatment that Style Wildcards get. And the Ultimate Style is totally over the top.
For some reason I thought you kept that aim bonus as long as you didn't lose line of sight, but I'm apparently insane. I edited the post.
Wait... We're both off... target SM is added to skill, and the shark is SM+3
Your prerogative of course... We can pull the extra ACC now, we are refiguring the effective skill anyway. In fact, it keeps the Effective skill the same once we correct for the SM:
This reduces the price of the Natural Attack by [1], so let's throw that into the bioluminescent perk and say they have a light source that can be ambient, a beacon, or turned off as needed for a little extra light if Night Vision 7 isn't cutting it. Kind of like accessory: hooded lantern, but underwater...
Vassarious tethered themselves to a line and is kind of kiting, being dragged along with the sub for now. (They exited and anchored to the sub from the forwardmost point possible if that's okay.) They will hit the release on the line when the demons are close enough to close for melee.

Can I use the Ultimate techniques we discussed in the water? They requires an Acrobatics rolls (perhaps floated (ha!) to Aquabatics?), but I'm not sure what a fall would mean underwater...

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Ok, things are getting clearer now.


Ok, lets do it.


I assumed you could already turn it off and on for free: your baseline is TL8, where lights kind of do that.


Turbulence. Yeah, an Aquabatics roll to avoid being caught up in the turbulence. Failure means you spend the turn being dragged at an awkward angle spinning and turning, trying to stabilize yourself again.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

On Halcyone reloading...



One fast draw(ammo) lets you sync your arms to all do the same reloading. It takes three seconds to reload, unless you make a second roll to reduce the time to two seconds.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Do we need a separate roll for each second?


Damage is... base 3d, +2/die for weapon master, +2/die from the weapon. ok, got it.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Every round? if you say so.

Arg, I usually have techniques to bail Vassarious out... Being underwater complicates matters. Maybe I should have just taken the -2 bulk penalty...

Aquabatics (Acrobatics -4)

3d6 <= 10
1: 1 + 4 + 5 = 10 ... success
2: 6 + 5 + 1 = 12 ... failure
3: 1 + 6 + 4 = 11 ... failure
4: 5 + 5 + 1 = 11 ... failure
5: 6 + 3 + 4 = 13 ... failure
6: 2 + 4 + 6 = 12 ... failure
7: 5 + 6 + 2 = 13 ... failure

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Oops! Made a slip up on the distance, though technically 31 yards is less than 30 meters :P.

Strangely the remaining distances are accurate.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

perk: gets to use meters for range penalties

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Seems like there's a bit of a difference in firepower here...

Re: Corco's Villa
 

It's the recoil that's really getting in your way... 5d at RoF 10 isn't too bad.

---

BTW -

Halcyone should probably stay close to the airlock... A drawback to being a porcupine-kracken is that if one slips around and gets inside, Vassarious will need to shapeshift before they can fit back into the sub to help, and that's a massive time sink.

Vassarious should probably release and eat the bulk penalty so they can dart around the ship and keep eyes on all the targets. We don't want the injured one coming back around out of view.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

I mean, the difference in the last set of attacks was Halcyone rolling two 15's out of three rolls.



The Rcl 1 is tricky, and for some reason its the default value on ranged attacks via advantages.



All the myriad add-ons on the attack do stack up though.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

I was more thinking about how Halcyone has to reload periodically and gets fewer rolls per second. Anyway, it's fine. I'm just feeling that this combat feels like it was supposed to be a bit harder than it's working out.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Famous last words... it ain't over yet! Don't curse us!

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Yeah, Sorry about that, I had a big pile up in work and personal life at the same time, plus some of the Play by Post stuff was in a spot that required a bit of focus to answer.


Speaking of which, I will probably miss tomorrow.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Take all the time you want! Oh my goodness, please recharge as needed!

Thank you, thank you, thank you, for years of near-daily entertainment and collaborative storytelling!

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Yeah it's OK. The F5ing was kinda getting to me.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Vassarious did come to Corcos from his last gig hunting demons and monsters after all...

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Your welcome. Its been fun, but its good to see it you enjoyed it too.


oh, its totally a thing, I think it comes from the official angel template. Its just crazy how useful it is in this scenario.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

We've established you can defend, and you can kill them slowly at 60 yards and quickly at 30 yards. We haven't established you can clear them out, which is very much about maneuver. I think they can survive being chased around the sub.



At stake is if they are able to call in reinforcements when Silestro runs out of energy.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Both the Sub and V are at 13 yards/sec. Slowing the sub down was suggested at one point.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Yeah I thought about that last night. Even if the sub slows down I don't think they'll want to get closer and face the marines.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

With difficult communication and the time it take Vassarious to change shape to re-board the sub if one slips by, I think it's better to stick to what I posted and keep halycone on the hull (or doing whatever they want seperately) so they can get back on the sub quickly if we're boarded while Vassarious makes back and forth strafes and pick them off.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

I can edit the last IC post and say Vassarious takes on a form that can better communicate to discuss any plan refinements before going back out...



Would their buoyancy in the water help with that at all? How much overall ST would I have to trade to pick up a bit of lift ST to bring it to No Encumbrance?

Trading 4 points of Basic Move for 1 level of Enhanced Move Water would give basic move 12, top speed 24 or move 9, top speed 18 lightly encumbered.
Remove an Extra Arm and Immunity to Disease to buy off Invertebrate with 5 points left to use to customize seating and convenience's for Halcyone... One for a saddle/harness, one for a climbing line for a bit of freedom of movement.





-------------------



EDIT: Hid the last template version, Updated Post Follows:

Re: Corco's Villa
 

We could give Vassarious an external payload for BL and the first 180 lbs wouldn't count towards encumbrance instead of a saddle and line perks:

This version will allow the duo to travel at move 24 with acceleration 12, which should be enough for the pair to better hunt these guys down, but we will likely need to get beyond the bubble so we will need those marines on the hull to stay vigilant!

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Yeah that's basically what I was planning to suggest.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

That's a good idea.

Boyancy isn't the issue here: its drag. Which I'm handwaving to be equal to weight, for now.


This is the most questionable part...48 mph underwater is FAST. I'm going to allow it.



Thanks for spelling out all the changes, it makes things much easier. Looks good.



Do you need to make some sort of roll to "construct" the creature?

Re: Corco's Villa
 

He needs a Body Control -6 roll, so it took 5 tries... I'm fairly sure we said he didn't have penalties for repeated attempts...

If that's not the case we can ret-con the other rolls and I will take some extra time if that will help or burn a Wildcard point to turn the first fail into a success.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

I don't remember what I said along those lines. Lets roll with it for now.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Ok, an improvised form with repeated rolls that don't cost beyond the FP for a technique is fine. I was more thinking about a roll for using shapes and body plans that you haven't seen before. We've already established you have that first form, so everything here should work.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

360 vision for Sonar sounds cool, and very appropriate underwater.



For additional speed underwater I will need specific reference templates or creatures. Points will let you build something that can go 100 mph underwater fairly cheaply, but that's really hard in practice.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

I am trading grasping limbs for water jets and added fins, giving them three locomotion methods added together. You will just have to rule on what you will allow, or what traits "exist in your game world" What are the modifications they made to surpass Vassarious' speed? We can copy those too...

When you can integrate multiple locomotion advantages from different creatures, you may be able to surpass the speed of any of them.

EDIT!

For a real world high water speed example, Black Marlins have been clocked at 82mph, which would be ~move 41. That's a bit faster than sailfish, so maybe we can play catch up a bit if that's what their based on...

Did I ever meet a quickling or other creature with Altered Time Rate?

Re: Corco's Villa
 

They turned into sailfish/swordfish/marlins. If you can tell the difference at 50 yards away in the deep of the ocean you have skills! So they're operating at peak unmodified template speeds. I'm using move 12 with enhanced speed x3 as the base (effective move 36), and getting all the way up to records level involves sprinting. Any sailfish/swordfish/marlin form can get this speed.



Often what you don't have is more important than what you do. I think in this case, adding the water jets can add just a little bit of oomph: +1 to base speed.



As for the existing spiky arm creature... I'm going to say going past water move 24 requires getting rid of the spikes (so no ranged attack), and going past move 28 requires changing the arms to fins.



At any rate, the current challenge is not chasing your foe, but finding it. Do you want to change into a form with sonar? And will be the rest of the form?



I'm not aware of any in monster hunters, DF, or fantasy, so I'm going to say no for now.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

I wasn't claiming to tell the difference, just parroting back what you said they were. Google say's they're clocked as

Swordfish at 60 mph
Sailfish at 68 mph
Black Marlin at 82 mph, which is a pretty good jump

agreed

In the IC
I'm sure there are more but the "watchers at the end of time" from DF monsters 2 is an example of something I wanted to copy, but I know I couldn't come up with the points to approximate it.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

BTW, There is no added sprinting bonus if you have Enhanced Move, Enhanced Move replaces a sprinting bonus.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Yeah, I described them as sailfish!



I saw that article. I've also seen articles/posts claiming sailfish at 78mph and saying marlin stick to around 60. These are big fish stories: you take them with a grain of salt and the knowledge that measuring this stuff is really hard, exceptions get remembered forever, and people pick favorites.



This also gives us permission to use your non-standard billfish!

I just did a few searches, and I think they're the only ones with it, and their pretty niche.



Good catch. Interesting. I think I'm going to stay with the existing ruling though.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Yeah, if I recall they basically exist to smack around DF characters abusing gate magic.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Quote:

You can assume mystical forms up to SM+3 without issue, and we said SM+4 and SM+5 are fine as long as you are copying "boring" forms (which is to say Mammoths, Sea Serpents, and so forth).

Quote:

Yes, TOTAL ST is 30, which is normal for SM 3 creatures. Morph can imitate a fairly boring creature at SM 4 and ST 50 though. I think you've seen all the rest of this before.

Glad to see you remembered that.



The Creature does need to remain "boring". That means no Immunity to metabolic hazards or Injury Tolerance (the brain exists, its just in a weird spot). total top move with enhanced move applied also needs to be 38 (36 + water jets), not 40, though that's minor.



I would like to particularly note that the armor is approved on this creature because of what it is.


It doesn't matter for taking apart the jellyfish, but I don't think flying lunge multiplies ST. Just looking at MA for the future.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Okay, so let me know what can be done then, (they won't be mundane with Halcyone's seat and whatnot anyway).

Flying lunge gives +1 per die. It's flying leap that gives you a ST multiplier.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Do no be concerned if the enhanced move takes the Stealth Marlin over the declared speed limit. The max speed is limited by the narative, not the number crunch.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Sorry about the delay.

So for all sizes, copying traits found on existing templates and animals is fine and the preferred method. For large forms (over SM+3), they need to be based on animals/very animal like monsters. I'm going to waive simple (solid) structures for riding from this, because they help the whole party.

This isn't approved. Everywhere in Gurps I see Chameleon on cephalopods, its at level 2. You can do level 3. I can't really see sonar working here. Infravision is fine. The demon acheived the higher invisibility by turning into an invisible jellyfish, which had huge effects on the rest of its stats.

I have weird feelings about this. My initial thought is its fine as long as it doesn't get used for your power.

Payload, Contact paint, and gunports are fine. The Ejector seat is denied, though an ejector seat effect is assumed if you change form, and you probably need a seat. The HUD will need to be pretty simple, but glowing dots for enemy Boges and a different color for the sub are fine.

Yeah, that seems best. good thought.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Yeah... Meld 2 is crazy, especially in the ocean, and I don't see it on any elemental templates in DF. Meld 1 might be feasible for a water elemental, but I don't know how that would work in the ocean.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

I would think Meld would work pretty much like teleportation while suspended within the medium.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Even with meld 1? Meld 2 does that, of course, but I'm not sure how it would work with Meld 1.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

I forgot Meld 1 lets you traverse it as well, which is why I said 2, but I think Meld 1 is "this body of water" and Meld 2 would be "Any body of water"

That would be pretty cool to swirl out as a water elemental and back in next to them, but once we get to 400 yards it's faster to finish swimming there anyway than to shapeshift.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

72 mph on the open seas. Yeah.

Re: Corco's Villa
 

Because I don't see destiny on this character sheet?

Re: Corco's Villa (OOC)
 

LOL

We've referenced and used it before, and it's on my google-sheet. I'll fix that.

But I didn't choose it, it's a campaign switch.