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-   -   What do you want for the 35-year anniversary? (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=171358)

Anders 12-03-2020 07:02 AM

What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Next year is GURPS 35-year anniversary. The game was first published in 1986, although I couldn't find a specific date. No doubt someone will enlighten me.

So what do you want for the 35-year anniversary?

Edit: Guys, Vehicles is off the board. It's not going to happen. Let's not discuss it.

RedMattis 12-03-2020 07:29 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
For GURPS to grow even more popular than Munchkin! Wait, no that's a Monkey's Paw wish waiting to happen. D:

For GURPS to grow to be as large and popular as the currently most popular card-games!

zoncxs 12-03-2020 11:09 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
For a research paper to become public that details the kinetic energy of various strikes of an average human body (punches and kicks) and the kinetic energy of swing an object (like a bat or stick) so we know the ratio for swing vs thrust so we can have a more accurate damage table.

For a research paper to become public that details the lifting compacity of the human body with various weights and heights using different lifting methods so we can have a more accurate encumbrance table.

For both of those research papers to link to each other so we know the relationship between them, for a more accurate ST table.

Donny Brook 12-03-2020 12:59 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
The vehicle design book for 4e.

Michael Thayne 12-03-2020 01:01 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook (Post 2356286)
The vehicle design book for 4e.

I was going to say this, but wasn't sure it was a good idea to start up that discussion again.

Anders 12-03-2020 01:21 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I was actually pondering whether to specifically say that that's not allowed.

TGLS 12-03-2020 01:59 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
GURPS Asparagus

DoctorRomulus 12-03-2020 02:11 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
A reprinted copy of the GURPS Boxed Set from 1986!!
With Cardboard Characters and all!!

:D

OldSam 12-03-2020 02:42 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
My top three wishes would be:

- Official VTT support for GURPS, ideally Fantasy Grounds Unity I'd say

- A strong licensed worldbook (or boxed set incl. setting and rules) for 4e, preferrably classic Fantasy, Urban Fantasy or Cyberpunk genre...

- Basic Set revised edition 4.5


...I'm happy if one becomes true! ;)

Turhan's Bey Company 12-03-2020 02:45 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I want a pony.

DangerousThing 12-03-2020 02:54 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I want more GURPS Space stuff outside THS.

Rolando 12-03-2020 02:56 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
vehicle construction rules for sure!

a reprint of the classic may be a nice collector item too.

but vehicle construction rules that integrate/include mecha and robots, that is not the spaceship rules, is what I want.

cptbutton 12-03-2020 03:15 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company (Post 2356299)
I want a pony.

GURPS My Little Pony?

Edges 12-03-2020 03:25 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Girl Genius

Kromm 12-03-2020 03:47 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders (Post 2356291)

I was actually pondering whether to specifically say [vehicle-design rules are] not allowed.

Good idea. It's one of the few "wish list" discussions that can draw thread closures and bans. Yes, we're aware that some people think vehicle design is the be-all, end-all. We ask them to be aware that making it happen is a very, very low priority for many practical reasons, most of which I'm not at liberty to discuss. End of topic.

Michael Thayne 12-03-2020 04:25 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company (Post 2356299)
I want a pony.

See B460, right between the large mule and racehorse.

(I had trouble finding it too at first.)

Say, it isn't that bad! 12-03-2020 04:38 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
"GURPS Character Assistant 5" seems like a modest enough ask, considering it's under development. OTOH, it gets work whenever the developer can get time away from their paying job, so...

Overall, GURPS has been doing better, and I'd like to see more of that. :)

apoc527 12-03-2020 05:38 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I want Kromm to be able to run a game again so we can read the session reports. Even better would be a game run virtually that is streamed/recorded so we can WATCH the sessions!

Refplace 12-03-2020 05:47 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
New Science Fiction setting - Douglas Cole already announced one.
I'd like to see a couple more really great settings and the blogosphere and social media really push their favorites so GURPS grows.
I'd like to see some fan fiction based on GURPS, according to some of my friends that helped another system a lot. Though I found that hard to believe.
I'd like a consistent new release of at least 1 supplement per month.

AlexanderHowl 12-03-2020 06:14 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I think that I would like a GURPS Diadem, a book within the Diadem Universe of Jo Clayton. It has twenty books written by her, but her early death prevented it from being explored further.

Rolando 12-03-2020 06:33 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Ok if vehicles is out of the question a Netflix, BBC or HBO series of Banestorm will do... in a pinch.

Refplace 12-03-2020 06:41 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2356336)
I think that I would like a GURPS Diadem, a book within the Diadem Universe of Jo Clayton. It has twenty books written by her, but her early death prevented it from being explored further.

I liked that series, also see if Alan Dean Foster is up for a renewal since he is hurting money wise and another company appears to have stiffed him.

Gumby Bush 12-03-2020 06:52 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I find GURPS 4e to be a pretty solid and mature system with rather few gaps per se. At this point, a lot of what is left is smoothing edges and filling in more particular setting stuff.

So, top of my list:
  • How to Be a GURPS GM: New-Tech -- Advice for GM's creating new technologies from fiction or new inventions in the real world. Maybe also covering setting TL, dealing with TL transitions in game, and similar issues.
  • Power-Ups 10 and on -- discussions of Blessed, TbaM, WM, and similar amalgam-type advantages (and Disadvantages: Code of Honour, Divine Curse, etc.,) being top of my list there, but also perhaps something covering optional rules for Skills (e.g., the alternate Guns specialties from Pyramid, the house rule some use for de-specializing skills, and considerations of how various skills are split up, e.g., the Sleight of Hand, Pickpocket, and Filch trio or the Holdout/Smuggling distinction), and some for the more finicky or specialized advantages (Affliction, maybe Gadgeteer, although that's well covered in AtE2 and MH:PU1, Shapeshifting abilities, etc.).
  • Ultra-Tech: Near-Tech -- smoothing the edges between TL8 and TL9, incorporating some of the rules in various Pyramids (3/51 and 3/55) and expanding on how improvements from TL9 might be applied to TL8 gear. TL9 LBV?

As that probably makes obvious, my concerns with the system's integrity have to do with certain sorts of traits and the transition from TL8 to TL9 (or, more broadly, High-Tech to Ultra-Tech)

Lower on my list and other thoughts:
I think Girl Genius will be a nice piece to celebrate, but I am more looking forward to Realm Management.

I think vehicle concerns might be suitably well addressed by variations on the Action 6 model along with the pre-builds in the Vehicles series. I'd enjoy seeing something offering expanded baselines for those rules (grav jeep, clockwork car, etc.), which would probably be good for a Path of Cunning article. In the Vehicles series I'd like to see more TL8 offerings for aircraft and military vehicles. I continue to hope for the full, more realistic, Vehicles for 4e, but I understand why I may have a long wait for that.

Banestorm: The New Age -- covering what's happened in the Banestorm since we last heard -- might be a nice 35-year marker, but not really my cup of tea. DF Settings: Banestorm might also be a good product to consider, although most of that work is inessential: a lot is about how races might need to be shifted, what needs to be ignored, and a template for a Banestorm Victim. Again, I prefer to make my own settings, and usually not ones with Banestorm equivalents, so it's not up my alley.

Social Engineering: Stigmas and Regards and a book on alternate laws of nature (expanding on suggestions about "planes where space doesn't matter" and such when discussing astral planes and such) are a couple other spots I see opportunity--I'm kind of surprised the latter wasn't covered as much as it might've been in Powers: The Weird. Such a work might also cover how to alter things for "Comic Book Physics" and such.

I am also looking forward to Doug's Mission X.

I would also like to see further DF Denizens (likely) and After the End (maybe less likely) works. After the End 3: Hazards and Motives?

FickleNeuron 12-03-2020 07:47 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Book wise? More Science Fiction, possibly a near future setting based around first contact.

That’s really what I have come to GURPS for, Science Fiction is my jam these days in all media forms. Thirty-one years of fantasy is enough for me as the tropes get old after a while.

Content wise, it would be cool to see a well produced Actual Play show with GURPS as the subject, teaching the game incrementally and really showing what GURPS can do.

Overheat 12-03-2020 08:03 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Pipe Dream- any new hardcover release, GURPS Alchemy and Herblore, GURPS Basic Set Directors' Commentary


Realistic- Continuation of the GURPS Magic and Sorcery series for the individual colleges.


It would be cool to have some fancy new release of the Basic Set with the latest errata. Then I can have rules for Gunslinger and complementary skills on physical paper.

tbone 12-03-2020 08:13 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Here's a big list of GURPS/DFRPG books I'd like to see. (Yet for all that length, it doesn't even include a Vehicles for 4e or a GURPS 5e! Not very ambitious wishing. : )

But that was posted a few months ago just for fun, not with any special anniversary wishes in mind. For a special 35-year celebration, I'd like . . . well, new books, sure, but I trust they'll come. And as a player, excitement over new books is always tempered by the realization that just the stuff I already have is more than I can fit into a lifetime of games. (RPGs: If the stuff is good, a little bit goes a long way!)

As a special wish, I think I'll echo comments like RedMattis': I'd like to see the game get a surge of popularity. Again, it doesn't matter to me as a player - what effect does it have on me whether some supplement I'm using is being used by ten other humans or a million others? - but it'd be nice to see the people who keep the game rolling get more reward and credit. (And I think there are players out there who'd really enjoy the system if only they could give it a try. It'd be nice to see them become happier gamers with that discovery.)

That'd be my wish for Year 35: A big shot of respect and commercial success for a system and creative team that really deserve it.

AlexanderHowl 12-03-2020 09:16 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
How about a book on expanding the maximum TL back up to 16 again? IRL, we are late-TL8/early-TL9, so we are only 3-4 TLs below the maximum, which is really odd when you think about it. Or perhaps a book on divergent TLs based on steam punk (TL5+x), dieselpunk (TL6+x), rocketpunk (TL7+x), and cyberpunk (TL8+×).

Edges 12-03-2020 10:19 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I never realized TL 12 was meant to be the maximum. I thought it was just the highest listed.

AlexanderHowl 12-03-2020 10:23 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
It depends on individual GM interpretations. Some GMs have it being the maximum while some of them see it as just the highest listed. I generally have the maximum TL obtainable by a species being (average species IQ), so the human species would need to be modified to reach TL11+.

Phantasm 12-03-2020 11:09 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cptbutton (Post 2356306)
GURPS My Little Pony?

GURPS My Little Pony 40,000...

Friendship is Magic, and Magic is HERESY!

Phantasm 12-03-2020 11:15 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
On my wish list:

GURPS Space Opera, in the same vein as GURPS Action, GURPS Monster Hunters, GURPS After the End, and GURPS Dungeon Fantasy. Failing that, an official GURPS Psi-Wars Boxed Set!

An update of GURPS IST. Or some other semi-official superhero setting.

An official Bestiary, at the least giving stats for modern megafauna like the hippo and rhino. It can be split up into a Bestiary line, I won't care!

More GURPS presence on the FLGS's store shelves. It's currently zero. (Hell, I didn't even see any GURPS books in the "vintage RPG books" box at the local FLGS, and they had some old Dragon magazines in that box.) Maybe Girl Genius will help with that this time next year(?).

David Johansen 12-04-2020 01:16 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I still want a range of modular 3.25 inch GURPS action figures that can be used to build any character (including toasters and brains in jars) but more importantly can show ready weapons and posture at a glance. See how restrained I am? I didn't even ask for the modular vehicle building construction kit in 3 scales.

In a more reasonable vein, the GURPS Space Opera line does sound nice. The star ship crew pdf is pretty handy

johndallman 12-04-2020 02:37 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Overheat (Post 2356351)
It would be cool to have some fancy new release of the Basic Set with the latest errata. Then I can have rules for Gunslinger and complementary skills on physical paper.

I think that's what you get if you buy a Basic Set printed this year. Seventh Printing has those rules included.

scc 12-04-2020 03:16 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolando (Post 2356338)
Ok if vehicles is out of the question a Netflix, BBC or HBO series of Banestorm will do... in a pinch.

Wouldn't work. Banestorm has 2 features that differentiate it from standard RPG fantasy worlds. 1) It's a worlds where the crusades never ended, given how the world has changed in the 34 years Banestorm was first conceived, this won't fly today and is why SJG needs to develop a new, better default fantasy setting for GURPS. 2) Healing magic not being the domain of Clerics. This gamer trope isn't even on the radar of most normal folk, so it won't stand out.

Now Technomancer might do better but really for GURPS material to attract that kind of attention you not only need a setting, but also a story to adapt, and GURPS has been rather shy in putting those out there.

If there's something I'd like to see it's SJG pivot away from seeing GURPS as ONLY a toolbox and release a setting or two that really attracts attention and provide it with on going support.

RedMattis 12-04-2020 05:44 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scc (Post 2356372)
Wouldn't work. Banestorm has 2 features that differentiate it from standard RPG fantasy worlds. 1) It's a worlds where the crusades never ended, given how the world has changed in the 34 years Banestorm was first conceived, this won't fly today and is why SJG needs to develop a new, better default fantasy setting for GURPS. 2) Healing magic not being the domain of Clerics. This gamer trope isn't even on the radar of most normal folk, so it won't stand out.

Now Technomancer might do better but really for GURPS material to attract that kind of attention you not only need a setting, but also a story to adapt, and GURPS has been rather shy in putting those out there.

If there's something I'd like to see it's SJG pivot away from seeing GURPS as ONLY a toolbox and release a setting or two that really attracts attention and provide it with on going support.

Well, that and basically being a "Isekai", since the Banestorms basically just drop off people from across the multiverse.

Leaning into the actual Banestorms of Banestorm would probably be the way to go for making a TV series.

Heck you could pretty much throw in some version of the GURPS Sample characters (Dan Blackthrorn, etc.) and the plot practically writes itself. ...it will be a rather bizarre plot with those guys though, which may or may not be what you want.

Anders 12-04-2020 06:04 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I think that if you want to go with a GURPS property for TV I would go with Cyberworld. Yeah, the timeline would have to be updated but the general idea has legs. Or maybe the Mad Lands. Or IST. There's plenty of things to use.

Daigoro 12-04-2020 06:05 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TGLS (Post 2356295)
GURPS Asparagus

*roflsnort*

<insert Steve Rogers "I got that reference" gif>

For a 35th anniversary, the *obvious* thing would be a Power Ups full of 35 point abilities.

Otherwise, I'll just echo my previous wish for a Action/MH/AtE-style treatment of cyberpunk, and an Inventions and Gadgeteering book.

Michael Cule 12-04-2020 07:16 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I want an improved GCA (one that makes designing your own settings and templates for the program easier and actually documented) and to combine it with support for at least one of the popular virtual tabletops.

I think you could do a BANESTORM tv series if you set it in Tredroy and made it clear that to the protagonists 'Crusader' is a synonym for 'dangerous idiot'.

If it were ever to happen I'd like to audition.

More believably I want a series of books about the nations of Yrth bringing them up to date and providing at least one adventure set in each one.

I'm looking forward to GIRL GENIUS but more in a 'how the hell are they going to do that' way.

I have no use whatever for VEHICLES.

AlexanderHowl 12-04-2020 07:32 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
If you were going for a TV series, I would go for an Infinite Worlds setting where you have Cold World style conflicts between Homeline and Centrum, with Reich-5 and the Cabal thrown in for good measure. You could have the first season involving a Homeline versus Centrum arc, a second season involving a Homeline versus Reich-5 arc, a third season involving a Homeline versus the Cabal arc, a fourth season going back to the Homeline versus Reich-5 arc, and a fifth season going back to the Homeline versus Centrum arc. It would be a mix of Sliders, Stargate, and Supernatural, with a dash of Angel, Buffy, and Sabrina added in.

Anders 12-04-2020 07:54 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
A Girl Genius TV series would be a fun experience. And it's kind of GURPS.

Turhan's Bey Company 12-04-2020 08:12 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cptbutton (Post 2356306)
GURPS My Little Pony?

Nah, man. Actual flesh and blood pony.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone (Post 2356352)
what effect does it have on me whether some supplement I'm using is being used by ten other humans or a million others?

Money means a lot. If, say, 5000 people buy the same supplement as you do rather than 500, that means SJ Games gets ten times as much money. That means more funding for more and better art and maps. That means hiring on more (and, plausibly, better paid) editorial staff and grooming someone to be another Kromm, so the actual Kromm gets to spend a little more time on tango and mixing drinks and less time on work. That means more authors writing more books (since it's a more attractive financial proposition) so you get MOAR GURPS!!!1!! And if 50,000 people buy it? Even more so. It's an indirect effect, certainly, but it's real.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone (Post 2356352)
That'd be my wish for Year 35: A big shot of respect and commercial success for a system and creative team that really deserve it.

At the risk of expressing a view clouded by self-interest as a sometime member of that team, I quite agree. Not the kind of thing SJ Games can organize, of course, but still...

Anders 12-04-2020 08:14 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Yeah, if you want Vehicles 4th edition you should buy everything GURPS and donate large brown paper bags of money to SJG so that they can hire another editor.

Ţorkell 12-04-2020 08:52 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
A 256 page hardcover book, preferably in color. Not Vehicles

Kromm 12-04-2020 09:17 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company (Post 2356389)

Money means a lot. If, say, 5000 people buy the same supplement as you do rather than 500, that means SJ Games gets ten times as much money. That means more funding for more and better art and maps. That means hiring on more (and, plausibly, better paid) editorial staff and grooming someone to be another Kromm, so the actual Kromm gets to spend a little more time on tango and mixing drinks and less time on work. That means more authors writing more books (since it's a more attractive financial proposition) so you get MOAR GURPS!!!1!! And if 50,000 people buy it? Even more so. It's an indirect effect, certainly, but it's real.

That is really what it comes down to.

There might have been a time when RPGs were a "hobby industry" that people who were mostly not professional writers did as an adjunct to their days jobs (a bit like the situation many freelance writers are in today). When nobody much had a full-time job in RPGs. When the products looked a little like the typewritten leaflets of political radicals at the university.

But these days, the industry is closer to the mainstream:

On the production side, it's "just another business" in a lot of ways. People work on RPGs as a full-time job and expect to get paid enough to live on. They might still love games, but their first priority is the same as that of anybody else who works, which isn't undue greed but simply a desire to eat, pay bills, and perhaps have a little left to live life with.

On the customer side, gamers now expect the products to look polished. There are big players who can afford seriously glossy production values, support in the form of things like miniatures and computer applications, and involvement in video games and even movies. They set a very high standard. On some level, every gamer wants their favorite game to compete with that.

There's a bit of a disconnect between the two: A lot of longtime gamers seem to buy into the second but not the first. That is, they want everything to be polished, they don't want to wait for the products they desire, and they are constantly disappointed when various licenses or new technologies don't materialize . . . but they don't see that getting what they want requires paying a lot of full-time salaries, which means either accepting regular and sometimes significant price increases, or buying higher volumes at more modest prices.

I think in some ways this is a result of those who have the most money being the elders of the gaming hobby, whose vision of how stuff works froze in time back in the 1970s, 80s, or perhaps 90s.

Anyway, one thing that GURPS specifically needs is for fans from its early days (say, the 1980s and early 90s) to realize that – although GURPS isn't the same game with the same economic circumstances and same new fans it had in 1986, 1996, or 2006 – it's still a good game that deserves their support. Perhaps it doesn't have a new licensed setting several times a year, or hardbacks, or a plethora of design mini-games. We're very open about the fact that its current direction – focused genre support in small installments – isn't that. But it's still high-quality work that merits support. I'd say the quality has gone up, as I'm a much better editor and writer than I was in 1995, and most of our longtime freelancers are more capable as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company (Post 2356389)

At the risk of expressing a view clouded by self-interest as a sometime member of that team, I quite agree. Not the kind of thing SJ Games can organize, of course, but still...

What we can do is control the editorial quality of our games. We have high editorial standards (ask any freelancer how exacting we can be . . . oh, wait . . .), so the writing is stronger than average. The indexes are reliable. The layouts might not be groundbreaking, but they're professional and readable.

What we can't do is magically turn back time to the 1980s and 90s when we had a whole office full of editors mostly dedicated to GURPS. Card, dice, and other games make too much money for the company to channel its resources into RPGs instead. Basically, there's just me, plus whatever fraction of Steven Marsh and Nikki Vrtis GURPS is allowed to borrow from other projects. That means certain huge initiatives – notably lengthy printed books and complicated design systems – are now impractical.

Only fans can turn back time, and they can't do so by regretting we don't live in the past – only by spending lots of money on the product line, so it can compete with the other products and justify more staff.

And to be clear: Nobody is getting rich off this; this isn't the privileged begging for more privilege. My last pay raise was six years ago almost to this day, in which time we've seen about 10% inflation . . . and that's on a rate of pay that I accepted when the U.S. dollar was worth 5% more than it is today here in Canada. Also, I don't have paid time off; when I take breaks, they're unpaid, making my real rate of pay even lower. I still do this work because I believe in it, not because it pays me well!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders (Post 2356390)

Yeah, if you want Vehicles 4th edition you should buy everything GURPS and donate large brown paper bags of money to SJG so that they can hire another editor.

Essentially this. If more money appeared tomorrow, then despite what I said above about my own income, I'd prefer to see the money spent on more staff.

David Johansen 12-04-2020 09:23 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
The problem with more staff is that it's a constant expense and requires constant and consistent money.

Kromm 12-04-2020 09:46 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johansen (Post 2356402)

The problem with more staff is that it's a constant expense and requires constant and consistent money.

Yep. But I do believe that if GURPS revenues went up enough to hire more staff, we could keep the rate and quality of production high enough to sustain that staff.

And I do think that staff is the way to go. The gig economy with its short-term contractors is what I'd term a "low morale" economy. Games are supposed to be fun, so they need "high morale" workers. That's my daily struggle, to be honest: Keeping a positive attitude that leads to fun gaming materials despite my personal economics not really supporting that attitude (after 25 years, I'm still a contractor!).

AlexanderHowl 12-04-2020 10:23 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I think that a version of GURPS that was tailored to older children could potentially do well. Just remove a lot of the optional rules, standardize a lot of the templates and the lens, and have a bunch of straightforward adventures set in proprietary settings (not Yrth!). I imagine that such a thing could get a substantial following among older children if done correctly.

For example, you could have a single 300+ page core book with 90 pages of character rules, 90 pages of campaign rules, and 120 pages of settings divided into six setting sections: an adventure setting, a fantasy setting, a horror setting, a mystery setting, a science fiction setting, and a superhero setting. Each setting section could include ten pages of setting introduction, setting character rules, and setting campaign rules, and a ten page introductory adventure. In turn, each setting could be further expanded with a separate setting book, which could be 300+ pages with 60 pages of expanded setting information, character rules, and campaign rules, and with 240 pages of one setting campaign arc consisting of twelve 20 page adventures.

Anthony 12-04-2020 11:43 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I'd like online and VTT support for GURPS. I suspect that's not practical without changes to how SJG does licensing, though.

RedMattis 12-04-2020 01:57 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I think the biggest question if you want to attract older kids is having the right setting. And probably sticking something like the GURPS-lite rules in the setting book.

I imagine something like "GURPS Marvel Heroes" or whatever could do amazingly well in that format. Now convincing someone like Marvel (Disney) that they want to use GURPS, and then get a reasonable agreement both parts agree with would probably be... tricky.

Probably they'd just figure they'd hire someone write their own system and own it 100%. Or use D20, because D20...

AlexanderHowl 12-04-2020 02:19 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I am almost afraid to even mention the possibility of GURPS Marvel for fear that Disney would offer to purchase SJG. After all, if Disney offered $20 million for SJG, I am not sure what would happen.

TGLS 12-04-2020 02:43 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2356457)
I am almost afraid to even mention the possibility of GURPS Marvel for fear that Disney would offer to purchase SJG. After all, if Disney offered $20 million for SJG, I am not sure what would happen.

Worst Case: Disney buys SJG to get at Munchkin IP and the company is otherwise ground to dust.

Best Case: Tons of money is thrown at SJG, and GURPS catches a little of it.

Refplace 12-04-2020 03:50 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2356457)
I am almost afraid to even mention the possibility of GURPS Marvel for fear that Disney would offer to purchase SJG. After all, if Disney offered $20 million for SJG, I am not sure what would happen.

Best bet would be Kevin Fogey who is a big nerd and understands creativity. Approach him with a proposal that included a variety of his favorite or high profile Marvel characters to get his interest and reference Munchkin and a bunch of the old book license's to show SJG credibility at meeting contracts and being a good faith partner.
Trouble is I doubt they would do it for just a royalty and the licensing fees would be too expensive for a GURPS line.

scc 12-04-2020 04:22 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedMattis (Post 2356374)
Well, that and basically being a "Isekai", since the Banestorms basically just drop off people from across the multiverse.

Isekai is only popular in Japan/Anime circles and even there it seems to be something of a fad that's dying out, and that still doesn't help the problem of not having a story to develop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Cule (Post 2356381)
I want an improved GCA (one that makes designing your own settings and templates for the program easier and actually documented) and to combine it with support for at least one of the popular virtual tabletops.

I think you could do a BANESTORM tv series if you set it in Tredroy and made it clear that to the protagonists 'Crusader' is a synonym for 'dangerous idiot'.

More likely to happen, but still has problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm (Post 2356400)
That is really what it comes down to.

There might have been a time when RPGs were a "hobby industry" that people who were mostly not professional writers did as an adjunct to their days jobs (a bit like the situation many freelance writers are in today). When nobody much had a full-time job in RPGs. When the products looked a little like the typewritten leaflets of political radicals at the university.

I'd argue that this is still somewhat true outside of big publishers, at least the hobby industry bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm (Post 2356400)
On the customer side, gamers now expect the products to look polished. There are big players who can afford seriously glossy production values, support in the form of things like miniatures and computer applications, and involvement in video games and even movies. They set a very high standard. On some level, every gamer wants their favorite game to compete with that.

This is fine, as long as the polish adds something to the game. I mean artwork is nice, but we don't need expensive art every 4 pages or so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm (Post 2356400)
There's a bit of a disconnect between the two: A lot of longtime gamers seem to buy into the second but not the first. That is, they want everything to be polished, they don't want to wait for the products they desire, and they are constantly disappointed when various licenses or new technologies don't materialize . . . but they don't see that getting what they want requires paying a lot of full-time salaries, which means either accepting regular and sometimes significant price increases, or buying higher volumes at more modest prices.

Wage stagnation is something you grouse about later on

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm (Post 2356400)
I think in some ways this is a result of those who have the most money being the elders of the gaming hobby, whose vision of how stuff works froze in time back in the 1970s, 80s, or perhaps 90s.

Their wages most certainly have stuck in this time period, there's also another factor, but I'd be tempting a warning, at least, if I brought it up.

Polydamas 12-04-2020 05:33 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm (Post 2356400)
Basically, there's just me, plus whatever fraction of Steven Marsh and Nikki Vrtis GURPS is allowed to borrow from other projects. That means certain huge initiatives – notably lengthy printed books and complicated design systems – are now impractical.

I thought Steve Jackson Games hired Rev. Pee Kitty as a full-time GURPS assistant line editor?

Ţorkell 12-04-2020 05:56 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polydamas (Post 2356490)
I thought Steve Jackson Games hired Rev. Pee Kitty as a full-time GURPS assistant line editor?

As far as I know he, for reasons I don't know, is no longer in that job.

David Johansen 12-04-2020 06:20 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
When you think about it, every decent historical movie is already a GURPS movie.

apoc527 12-04-2020 07:28 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm (Post 2356405)
That's my daily struggle, to be honest: Keeping a positive attitude that leads to fun gaming materials despite my personal economics not really supporting that attitude (after 25 years, I'm still a contractor!).

What about a Kromm Patreon? Would that be allowed? I can (being a lawyer) see all kinds of potential issues with it, but creative work requires a certain level of morale, as you say. I'd be totally down for sending a few bucks your way every month to make GURPS better. And if there are 50 or 100 or 200 of me, that adds up quick. You'd probably want to do something for the Patrons, but since everyone would want GURPS content anyway, it could be interactive things like Polls for the next product or something.

Alternately, more Kickstarters.

I guess what I am really getting at is that there simply isn't that much GURPS left for me to buy and while I DO support SJ Games as a matter of course, not being a Munchkin player limits my opportunities to throw money at the company. I don't believe SJ Games as a corporate entity can use Patreon, but I see no reason why Kromm-the-Contractor couldn't!

Say, it isn't that bad! 12-04-2020 07:34 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
There's plenty of GURPS left for me to buy, and I'm slowly buying it. :)

Polydamas 12-04-2020 08:13 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
If GURPS has become a one-man shop plus the freelance writers, a Patreon / paypal dot me / KoFi could be a good solution to help tide things over at Dr. Kromm's until we find a better solution. Those sites don't have to be for specific services delivered at a specific schedule, I treat mine as a tip jar.

I think gaming books are shamefully underpriced.

seycyrus 12-04-2020 09:49 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Not much Gurps left for me to buy either.

But, I'd buy it all again if it was incorporated in some way as part of Fantasy Grounds Unity.

Shostak 12-04-2020 10:32 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I'd find it both pleasant and useful to have some very well crafted mystery adventures all worked up, particularly in the Horror, Monster Hunters, and Transhuman Space lines.

tbone 12-04-2020 11:07 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company (Post 2356389)
Money means a lot. If, say, 5000 people buy the same supplement as you do rather than 500, that means SJ Games gets ten times as much money. That means more funding for more and better art and maps. That means hiring on more (and, plausibly, better paid) editorial staff and grooming someone to be another Kromm, so the actual Kromm gets to spend a little more time on tango and mixing drinks and less time on work. That means more authors writing more books (since it's a more attractive financial proposition) so you get MOAR GURPS!!!1!! And if 50,000 people buy it? Even more so. It's an indirect effect, certainly, but it's real.

Indeed. I was commenting only on the very "small picture" impact of a work's popularity: whether a product has ten buyers or a million doesn't change that product's utility to me*. But certainly, the popularity means a lot to the creators - and it's meaningful to me in terms of the future products it'll enable, as you say.

*Even this isn't entirely true, especially in the online age. A lot of buyers will mean more people talking about it, and maybe suggesting new ways to get the most out of it.

Quote:

At the risk of expressing a view clouded by self-interest as a sometime member of that team, I quite agree. Not the kind of thing SJ Games can organize, of course, but still..
Right. It's not a "something I wish SJG would do"; it's a "something I wish would somehow happen".

Crystalline_Entity 12-05-2020 03:19 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I'm slowly running out of GURPS to buy too. The latest Kickstarter was a brilliant opportunity for me to fill out my collection, but I probably wouldn't be able to back many more at $99 as I'd run out of things to buy. There's also the (frequent) "issue" of products which look so fantastic that I'm going to buy them immediately and not wait for a Kickstarter or W23 sale or anything.

I agree with previous comments about SJG's production values, the quality of the products is amazing. The only things which occasional look a bit lacklustre are maps.

To answer the original question, there aren't really many gaps I can think of in GURPS. Being able to run a city/kingdom/star empire is one, but I think there's a supplement in preparation on that. I mean, there are plenty of GURPS licensed properties I'd love to see (GURPS Middle-earth, GURPS Star Trek, GURPS Wheel of Time), but I understand there are many reasons that's unlikely to happen, and I guess the more specific the product the smaller the audience who'll buy it. And to be honest, GURPS does give me the tools to do them myself if I had the time/motivation. A "GURPS Space Opera", would be nice, to build on the Template Toolkit 3 Starship Crew, but between that and GURPS Space and the Spaceships series most of the components are there already.

I'd buy more settings, SJG's settings can be inspirational and evocative (Transhuman Space, Infinite Worlds, etc), but I imagine any given setting would have a smaller group of potential buyers than something more generic.

ericthered 12-05-2020 07:00 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
I'd love to see the Gurps blogger community have a resurgence this year. Its still around, but its much more subdued than a few years ago. I think I'm seeing an uptick though.

Someone mentioned they'd like to see psi-wars be made official. I don't want that: I want someone to make the next psi-wars, but a different genre.

sgtcallistan 12-05-2020 07:58 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
A large number of genre-specific (but small and cheap) books / pdfs that solve the widely-perceived problem of the 'huge frightening toolbox'.

Essentially GURPS Lite plus genre, plus at least one campaign example within that genre (variations permitted). - plus a short list of what little is actually needed to tweak your own campaign.

Cards with illos of 'what to do next' may be useful, as well as item and treasure cards. Especially if they are generic enough to be used in other genres and become collectible.

Call them 'only what you want' books.

RedMattis 12-05-2020 08:25 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scc (Post 2356480)
Isekai is only popular in Japan/Anime circles and even there it seems to be something of a fad that's dying out, and that still doesn't help the problem of not having a story to develop

Nah, it has been around for ages and probably got big in the West first. Just not under that title. Captain N, Dugeons and Dragons (TV series), every freakin' time travel series ever, Star Trek often has character get lost in other worlds, etc. And then you have a ton of reverse-isekai stuff like Biker-mice from Mars or whatever.

It isn't a new trope, the "anime" people just gave it a name.

Dencat 12-05-2020 10:01 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
GURPS GURPS.
A comprehensive and cross-referenced tool for finding that elusive rules variant.

AlexanderHowl 12-05-2020 11:19 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
The Accidental Travel subgenre is quite old in Western fiction, dating at least back to 1726 with the publication of Gulliver's Travels, though I would argue that the tales of Sindad the Sailor are actually the ur-example. In Western fiction though, the traveler often changes their new home rather than adapting to their new home, which is a key aspect of Isekai anime and manga like Inuyasha. In fact, GURPS has rules on doing exactly that, as characters with high TL skills are capable of creating objects from their time and/or lifting the local TL with a lot of work.

dcarson 12-05-2020 01:05 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Which is a book I'd like. Gurps Robinsonade for the stranded person or group building the new area up. There is stuff on it but it could use a lot more detail.

cptbutton 12-05-2020 01:11 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dcarson (Post 2356582)
Which is a book I'd like. Gurps Robinsonade for the stranded person or group building the new area up. There is stuff on it but it could use a lot more detail.

There was a non-GURPS Traveller book with large-scale rules for building a colony on an empty planet. A GURPS version of that would be good if there isn't something like that already.

Phantasm 12-05-2020 02:23 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2356457)
I am almost afraid to even mention the possibility of GURPS Marvel for fear that Disney would offer to purchase SJG. After all, if Disney offered $20 million for SJG, I am not sure what would happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGLS (Post 2356462)
Worst Case: Disney buys SJG to get at Munchkin IP and the company is otherwise ground to dust.

Best Case: Tons of money is thrown at SJG, and GURPS catches a little of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refplace (Post 2356477)
Best bet would be Kevin Fogey who is a big nerd and understands creativity. Approach him with a proposal that included a variety of his favorite or high profile Marvel characters to get his interest and reference Munchkin and a bunch of the old book license's to show SJG credibility at meeting contracts and being a good faith partner.
Trouble is I doubt they would do it for just a royalty and the licensing fees would be too expensive for a GURPS line.

*eyes these posts*

*eyes his .sig*

*wonders*... We'd need more than just me working on it!

Refplace 12-05-2020 02:36 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantasm (Post 2356593)
*eyes these posts*

*eyes his .sig*

*wonders*... We'd need more than just me working on it!

Oh, if SJG announced something like this I and I suspect several others would volunteer to help. Kind of like when PK was writing RPM and asked for grimoire submissions. They could even do it secretly for the proposal.
Pretty much every Marvel character can be built in GURPS though the reality warpers might take some liberties with Control.

Anthony 12-05-2020 02:52 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2356574)
In Western fiction though, the traveler often changes their new home rather than adapting to their new home.

Hm. Wonder how old that particular subgenre is. Earliest I can think of off hand is A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court (1889).

AlexanderHowl 12-05-2020 05:49 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
In one of the tales of Sinbad, he was trapped in a different land for a couple of years and gained great wealth through introducing new technology.

Tyneras 12-05-2020 06:11 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Cabaret Chicks On Ice, Second Edition

Polydamas 12-05-2020 07:01 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Defoe and The Swiss Family Robinson both have quite a bit about how their castaways build something as close to European civilization as they can. For Defoe this is linked to colonial ideology, Hradzka of 'oh john ringo no' fame likes to compare other versions to home-improvement shows, the joy of watching people be competent and make things without the boring parts. We gamers know its like worldbuilding and conlanging.

SimonAce 12-05-2020 07:55 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Nothing special just for the system to have many more good years and maybe a bit of growth in its player base.

Say, it isn't that bad! 12-05-2020 10:32 PM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedMattis (Post 2356563)
Nah, it has been around for ages and probably got big in the West first. Just not under that title. Captain N, Dugeons and Dragons (TV series), every freakin' time travel series ever, Star Trek often has character get lost in other worlds, etc. And then you have a ton of reverse-isekai stuff like Biker-mice from Mars or whatever.

It isn't a new trope, the "anime" people just gave it a name.

"Cross-worlds fiction".

"Isekai" has the virtue of being shorter.

lvalero 12-06-2020 03:21 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
1) I would pay for a Kromm Patreon (if it is GURPS related). Although I think it is very unlikely to happen for legal reasons.



2) More fluff is needed! I would love if more people as Mailanka or Christopher R Rice get to be their settings published such as Douglas.



3) More magic systems! Some magic systems are hinted at Fantasy, Taumatology and Horror books but I am sure they can me much more explored/exploted with new supplement


4) Same rules, different fluff! Different fluff on old advantages/disadvantages/limitations such as imbuements/afflictions/psi/divine favor...

Dr. Beckenstein 12-06-2020 05:36 AM

Re: What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?
 
Gurps Batman. Because everything is better with Batman.


Jokes aside, really nice would be the "lost Gurps Books", source-books that were planned but were abandoned / cancelled for some reasons.

You know, books like "Gurps India" or "I feel fine".

Oh, and it would be nice if one could order books that only appeared as pdf as print-on-demands.


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