Outdoorsman seems overcosted
 

Adventurers P.51 gives us:

Outdoorsman (10 points/level): You get +1 per level (maximum of 4) to the Camouflage, Disguise (Animals), Fishing, Mimicry (Animal Sounds and Bird Calls), Naturalist, Navigation, Survival, Tracking, and Weather Sense. You also got +1 per level fo HT rolls to avoid harm when failure with those skills exposes you to cold, poisonous berries, etc.


I'm not a fan of this one at all. Maximizing a lot of those skills seems of dubious game benefits and the +HT seems like it would come into play so rarely as to not matter.

All of the skills relate to either IQ or Perception. So if you just boost IQ instead, you get a bonus to all of the skills of Outdoorsman plus a bonus to Perception and Willpower.

I find the Advantage quite underwhelming and I will encourage my players to never take it.

Re: Outdoorsman seems overcosted
 

Recognizing that this is the DFRPG, rather than DF...there's a box text on Outdoorsman, suggestively titled "Outdoorsman is Too Expensive!" in the book Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Barbarians on p. 21.

It notes that GURPS Power-Ups 3: Talents has an alternative cost for Outdoorsman, which also has a suggested "add this skill." It also explains why some Talents are "chunky" in price, and an alternative pricing scheme on p. 25 of that book. Basically, instead of 5-, 10-, and 15- point talents, it allows intermediate values.

Of course, if you're all dungeons, all the time, without any outdoor component, Outdoorsman will always be a waste of points.

Re: Outdoorsman seems overcosted
 

To my mind the price isn't to horrible, but, it feels oddly wedged into things. It's mandatory for Strong Guy and Bow Guy, so if you wanted to make Strong Guy or Bow Guy it just feels like suffering

Re: Outdoorsman seems overcosted
 

Awesome. Thank you!

Re: Outdoorsman seems overcosted
 

DFRPG's Outdoorsman isn't bad, covering nine skills. That's better than the GURPS version, which heads indoors after just 7 skills.

Still, I'd like to see the advantage's 10 points haul in a full 10 skills. Here's a full article on beefing up Outdoorsman:

https://www.gamesdiner.com/2017/03/t...r-outdoorsman/

As noted there, I like to simply add a tenth skill to DFRPG's Outdoorsman. Hiking seems the best fit to me.

(If a fully-rounded Outdoorsman still leaves players uninterested in the advantage, well, I guess their adventures just don't have much of an outdoor component! My recommendation is to pick up the Wilderness Adventures book in the DF line. It'll inspire any GM to move the action outdoors.)

Re: Outdoorsman seems overcosted
 

IQ offers a boost to all the same skills, plus a bunch of others, as well as boosts to Willpower and Perception.

Re: Outdoorsman seems overcosted
 

This is pretty much true of *all* talents relative to IQ or DX. Or indeed for buying up skills relative to IQ or DX.

It's a general problem really. The truth is that in any game where attributes (like IQ or DX in GURPS) contribute to skill levels in a major way, you can't really price them "fairly" relative to skills without making all the other stuff they do "unfairly" expensive for attribute based character concepts that care about the other stuff without having a lot of skills. You have to decouple them. Some games do (FUDGE for example) but that always draws complaints about "lack of realism".

Re: Outdoorsman seems overcosted
 

I believe Charisma to be quite attractive (PUN ALERT!). It adds to all social Influence rolls which would be: Carousing, Diplomacy, Intimidation, Interrogation, Savoir Faire, and Sex Appeal. In addition, it adds to Leadership and reaction rolls.

All for 5 points a level.

Some traits seem worth it. Others not so much.

EDIT: I would make the argument for Outdoorsman this way. The Scout template does not allow for IQ increases. Therefore, Scouts are forced to increase their skills either piecemeal or through the Outdoorsman trait.

Re: Outdoorsman seems overcosted
 

Pro-tip on the social skill rolls for finding the next adventure and suchforth.

Do that at the END of a session. Otherwise they're pointless 'cause you're only human and didn't prep 3-5 different dungeons to cover the different directions they could go. Instead, determine the course before a break, then go forth and adventure.

Re: Outdoorsman seems overcosted
 

I've taken a cue from the "Old School Revivalists". You can present a good adventure with nothing more than selection of places and a random encounter table. Sprinkle in some plot hooks to get to the dungeon which the party has to find.