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-   -   [Spaceships] Query: Area of a Solar Panel Array (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=170272)

DaltonS 09-17-2020 06:45 AM

[Spaceships] Query: Area of a Solar Panel Array
 
Is there a fixed area per ton of Solar Panel Array or is it the square of the ship's SM+3 length per system? (This will be useful when mapping my Martian “Gas” Station.)
Dalton “who likes mapping what he designs and vice versa” Spence

Ejidoth 09-17-2020 11:10 AM

Re: [Spaceships] Query: Area of a Solar Panel Array
 
A fixed area per ton would be more realistic, but you can run into problems if you try to work out realism for Spaceships solar arrays, as they seem to be implausibly efficient.

Given that, using the SM+3 that's used for targeting them seems like the most workable compromise, since it will prevent contradictions with other game mechanics.

Probably closer to one half the square of that length rather than the full square of that length, though, for area: remember, when converting SM to surface area, that the default assumption for SM 0 is a human-ish target that's at least twice as tall as it is wide.

Anthony 09-17-2020 11:31 AM

Re: [Spaceships] Query: Area of a Solar Panel Array
 
Realistically, you're looking at upwards of a square meter per kilowatt, and given that a SM+5 (1.5 ton) major battery outputs 10 MJ per 10s (per 5s if improved) it seems unlikely that a power plant is less than 2 megawatts per ton..

A SM+5 solar array is at least 3,000 square meters, or about a 100 meter radius if it's circular. That's a 200m diameter (SM+12) with another +2 for being a circular object, so SM+14. A decent rule of thumb is

Radius: (SM*1.5)+3.
SM: (SM*1.5)+7.

Thus, a SM+10 solar array has a radius of about a mile (+17) and has a size modifier of 22.

DaltonS 09-17-2020 01:57 PM

Re: [Spaceships] Query: Area of a Solar Panel Array
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ejidoth (Post 2343977)
A fixed area per ton would be more realistic, but you can run into problems if you try to work out realism for Spaceships solar arrays, as they seem to be implausibly efficient.

Given that, using the SM+3 that's used for targeting them seems like the most workable compromise, since it will prevent contradictions with other game mechanics.

Probably closer to one half the square of that length rather than the full square of that length, though, for area: remember, when converting SM to surface area, that the default assumption for SM 0 is a human-ish target that's at least twice as tall as it is wide.

Okay, lets go with that. My SM+11 Martian “Gas” Station has three Solar Panel Arrays (one won't cut it at 1.5 AU) which have an SM+14 targeting modifier. That corresponds with a 1,500 foot length. Squaring that and multiplying by 3/2 gets me 3,375,000 square feet or 77.47934 acres. Wow, talk about a solar farm! Keeping it dusted would be … very hard!
Dalton “And think of the Windex!” Spence

Anthony 09-17-2020 02:51 PM

Re: [Spaceships] Query: Area of a Solar Panel Array
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaltonS (Post 2343994)
Okay, lets go with that. My SM+11 Martian “Gas” Station has three Solar Panel Arrays (one won't cut it at 1.5 AU) which have an SM+14 targeting modifier. That corresponds with a 1,500 foot length. Squaring that and multiplying by 3/2 gets me 3,375,000 square feet or 77.47934 acres. Wow, talk about a solar farm![/I] Spence[/SIZE][/FONT][/RIGHT]

Hm. Compare to Topaz solar farm at 3,500 acres. Actually, that's not an unreasonable size for your gas station, 3,500 acres is 14 million square meters, and 3 x SM+11 power plant should be on the order of 9 gigawatts (space-based systems are likely to be far more compact than ground-based).

DaltonS 09-17-2020 04:07 PM

Re: [Spaceships] Query: Area of a Solar Panel Array
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2344002)
Hm. Compare to Topaz solar farm at 3,500 acres. Actually, that's not an unreasonable size for your gas station, 3,500 acres is 14 million square meters, and 3 x SM+11 power plant should be on the order of 9 gigawatts (space-based systems are likely to be far more compact than ground-based).

Actually according to the rules from GURPS Classic: Vehicles page 96, the power generated by that area of "solar cells" should be 270 MW on Earth which would translate to 120 MW on Mars. (The rate was 0.08 kW/sf if you are wondering.)
Dalton “A factor of 75 isn't too much, is it?” Spence

Anthony 09-17-2020 04:13 PM

Re: [Spaceships] Query: Area of a Solar Panel Array
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaltonS (Post 2344016)
Actually according to the rules from GURPS Classic: Vehicles page 96, the power generated by that area of "solar cells" should be 270 MW on Earth which would translate to 120 MW on Mars. (The rate was 0.08 kW/sf if you are wondering.)
Dalton “A factor of 75 isn't too much, is it?” Spence

Yes, but one energy point at SM +11 is almost certainly not less than 3GW.

AlexanderHowl 09-17-2020 04:51 PM

Re: [Spaceships] Query: Area of a Solar Panel Array
 
Yes, I would really much rather use fusion at TL9. It is the same cost per power point as solar and is not vulnerable to the inverse square rule. When you are attached to a body, you can also use it as a heat sink, so radiators are not really needed.

DaltonS 09-17-2020 05:06 PM

Re: [Spaceships] Query: Area of a Solar Panel Array
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2344018)
Yes, but one energy point at SM +11 is almost certainly not less than 3GW.

If so the total power the 3 systems would get on Mars would be 4GW. (The inverse square of 1.5 AUs is 4/9ths.) I've given up looking for consistency between 3rd and 4th edition power systems.
Dalton “Does this make SPAs Ultra-Tech?” Spence

Anthony 09-17-2020 05:18 PM

Re: [Spaceships] Query: Area of a Solar Panel Array
 
Basic problem here is that solar panel arrays are (by design, I assume) cinematic. Solar power isn't really the right power source for high energy components, it's for things where power requirements are fairly low but you need to run a long time without refueling and you want systems that are cheaper and smaller scale than nuclear.

DaltonS 09-17-2020 05:33 PM

Re: [Spaceships] Query: Area of a Solar Panel Array
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2344028)
Yes, I would really much rather use fusion at TL9. It is the same cost per power point as solar and is not vulnerable to the inverse square rule. When you are attached to a body, you can also use it as a heat sink, so radiators are not really needed.

I don't see fusion as working well with the hard science "Domed Mars" setting I want. (Fusion is too Ultra-Tech for my tastes here.) And I'm sure you meant "planet" or "celestial body" as a heat sink because ships still need radiators in a hard science setting. BTW what would the IR Sig of an underground fission reactor be?
Dalton “Can dirt shielding reduce an IR Signature?” Spence


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