Is there a Fighter template?
 

We have Holy Warriors, Barbarians, Knights...is there a template for more basic fighters?

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

What do you mean by "fighters"?

In DF, the knight template represents the fighter class from DnD. from the description of the template:

"Though you aren’t necessarily an avowed chevalier, you’re
more warrior than some castle-dwelling fop. Also, “knight”
sounds better than “fighter” (so generic!) or “thug” (offensive!)...."

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

Knight uses a combination of ST and DX and mastery of weapons to beat the bemeepus out of folks.

Barbarians overwhelm with raw ST and ferocity and being a mountain of meat.

Holy Warriors are a blend of fighty type and can bring the holy might.

Don't forget the Swashbuckler! Lower ST, really high DX, and mastery of finesse/fencing weapons and precision striking to bring the hurt.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

The Scout is the closest approximation of a bow using fighter even if it is far from a pure slugger

Martial Artists can definitely be fighters to

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

Yep, knights are the "basic fighters" – or would be, if DFRPG centered on lower-level characters. As it is, I describe DFRPG knights as "expert, professional fighters".

For quickly describing the professions to people, I divide them into three broad types:

Fighters
Barbarian
Holy warrior
Knight
Martial artist
Scout
Swashbuckler

Magic users
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Wizard

Other specialists
Thief

That places only one offering in the third category, but the DF line offers more (like Artificer and Sage). And these meta-categories aren't terribly meaningful anyway; the lines are blurry. All the professions have some decent fighting ability. The holy warrior straddles "fighter" and "magic user". And all the professions have some abilities that let them place a foot under "other specialists": outdoorsy ability (barbarian, druid, scout), religious-y stuff (cleric, druid, holy warrior), scholarly knowledge (wizard), social ability (bard), other hard-to-categorize weirdness (martial artist), etc.

But back to the OP: Yeah, I'd call the knight "basic fighter", if that means "closest to the D&D fighter". But that's where we get to what I like most about point-buy systems: if knight isn't what you have in mind for "basic fighter", just modify it, or build exactly what you want from scratch.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

The Theif template makes for a pretty good dirty fighter, not as formidable as the Barbarian or Knight but capable.

Monks also fight a bit. If you pump stats instead of buying mystical powers you can build the Monk into a terrifying brawler.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

Perhaps a well rounded 250 point fighter who can do it all rather than a heavy armor specialist?

Attributes:
ST 14 [40];
DX 14 [80];
IQ 10 [0];
HT 14 [40].

Per 14 [20];
Will 14 [20]?

Advantages:
Combat Reflexes [15];
Comfortable Wealth [10];
High Pain Threshold [10];
Status 1 [5];

Disadvantages: 40 points from
Bad Temper [-10];
Berserk [-15];
Bully [-10];
Code of Honor (Soldiers) [-10];
Over Confidenct [-5];
Stubborn [-5];

Skills
Boxing DX [2];
Bow DX [2];
Climbing DX [2];
Crossbow DX [1];
Broadsword DX [2];
Flail DX -1 [2];
Knife DX [1];
Knife Throwing DX [1];
Riding DX [2];
Sling DX -1 [2];
Spear DX [2];
Spear Throwing DX [1];
Staff DX [2];
Two-Handed Sword DX [2];
Twohanded Axe Mace DX [2];
Shield DX [1];
Swimming HT [1];
Wrestling DX [2];

And
Raise Two-Handed Sword or Two-Handed Axe/Mace or Bow to DX + 4 [16]; or Broad Sword, or Axe/ Mace, Pole Arm, Spear, or Flail and Shield by DX +2 [+8]
Hit Location (Neck or Vitals) +3 [4]

Lenses:

Leader
Charisma +2 [10]; Leadership IQ +2 [8];

Rogue
Climbing +2 [+8]; Stealth DX+2 [8]; Lockpicking DX [2];

Ranger
Perception +2 [10]; Animal Handling IQ [2]; Survival (Woods) Per [2]; Tracking Per [2]; Area Knowledge (Local and Nearby) IQ [1]

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

There is also GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 15 Henchmen pdf, and the making Custom Delver options of combining one of the base 125 point henchman templates (for Archer, Brute, Killer, Skirmisher, or Squire) with a +125 point upgrade lens (Veteran or Champion) to develop a 250 point fighter to match what you have in mind.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

DF15 is a pretty good way to go if you want to expand beyond the DFRPG Box Set, and can lead to some nice combos (it's also a good way to make a more AD&D-like Cleric than the current DF cleric, which is really like a holy mage, with very limited combat abilities). The only thing, I think, that makes the DF Knight less like a generic "fighter" template are the following advantages and skill: Born War Leader 2 [20], Leadership [2], Strategy [2], and Tactics [2].

Sounds like the OP is looking for a warrior who is really talented in combat but isn't one who leads troops. In that case, two DF15 125-point combos would allow you to easily create a warrior who doesn't have those extra Knight abilities. Basically, by doing that, you can dump the advantages and skills in those areas above and get 26 points to spend on skills or other combat-related advantages. Brute + Veteran would work, for example. Squire requires Born War Leader 1 [10], Leadership [1], Strategy [1] and Tactics [1], so it only gets you 13 more points instead of 26. But you get the idea.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

The only thing about the Knight which is not 'basic fighter' is that it has 10 points in Born War-Leader, as opposed to making that an optional trait.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

I actually think that's a pure-strain fighter trait. You should want to follow the experienced war veteran in a fight, even if they're not very charismatic or otherwise very smart.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

This is what I have done for a player who wanted a "pure" fighter - make Born War-Leader optional. That was the only "offending" trait for him.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

I agree!

—

The inclusion of Born War-Leader, Leadership, Strategy, and Tactics comes from GURPS Dungeon Fantasy. That series was in turn trying to emulate old-school RPGs, and in the earliest RPGs, higher-level fighting men (and a 250-point character qualifies as such) were capable of leading troops. Thus, I decided that the "baseline unspecialized fighter" – which is definitely the knight, to answer this thread's question – would have that capacity. Similarly, the cleric has Clerical Investment, Public Speaking, Religious Ritual, and Teaching to indicate they're an actual member of an organized religion who has to lead services, give sermons, and provide spiritual instruction . . . also as in those early games.

You can strip out these traits to save points: Born War-Leader 2 [10], Leadership [2], Strategy [2], and Tactics [2] can go away to give the knight 16 more points to spend, probably on ST and combat skills. Clerical Investment [5], Public Speaking [1], Religious Ritual [1], Teaching [1] can go away to give the cleric 8 more points to spend, likely to be better at fighting or casting. That wouldn't be wrong, but it would perhaps depart from what the game is trying to emulate.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

Biggest 'not fighter' aspect of the modified Knight is lack of option for Heroic Archer, since in D&D I loved playing weapon specialist fighter archers

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

Then you use the Scout template. That is what it is there for. Though you could add that to the knights template, but then that give that one template a lot of coverage, meaning very little reason to pick something else.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

Yeah, Heroic Archer is the keystone special ability of a different profession. That said, you can:

1. Do without HA, and build a knight who likes bows. Pick a two-handed melee weapon skill and Bow, and move the 4 points from Shield into Bow, as the template offers. That's Bow-16. Using 4 points from quirks gives Bow-17. And using advantage points can give +1 to +3 to DX, for Bow at 18-20. Plus you can learn Fast-Draw (any) as part of the template. You'll still be killer with melee weapons.

2. Play a scout! You can still be a really good melee fighter. Just the basics on the template give Broadsword and Shield at 16. Using 4 quirk points can give you 17 in one of these. Optionally, use advantage points for +1 or +2 to DX, to have 17+18 or 18+19. You'll still be scary with a bow.

These templates are really quite versatile.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

For my character points, the scout is the best fighting template there is. The socially misfit part is a bummer, though...

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

I one built a character using DF with the Archer template from DF15: Henchmen and the Veteran lens to bump her to 250. The result was closer to a mercenary archer than a wilderness ranger.

I don't know how much of DF3: The Next Level is in DFRPG, but a Knight with the Knight-Scout lens could also be a viable build for a ranged warrior that is not a wilderness ranger like the typical Scout.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

I agree that the scout is a powerful template. I'm particularly impressed by the pre-gen Emily Elms (a downloadable extra): built for awesome speed, accuracy, and damage with a bow, despite low halfling ST. (Shot to unarmored vitals: 15 to 30 damage, every time!)

She's good at a lot on top of that, too. (Her ST does become a shortcoming in melee, though; she can defend well enough with that shortsword, but will have trouble hurting even lightly armored foes. I'd recommend she switch to the large katar for a little extra punch, and put her high skill to use against armor gaps.)

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

Archery is to me incredibly feast or famine, a lot of foes are weak to it (indifferent dodge, obvious weak points) and others are mostly immune (good dodge mostly but also DR and lack of weak points)

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

Most of the active defense reasons come out in the wash: Yes, a melee fighter can benefit from Deceptive Attack to wear down Dodge . . . but then, a melee attack admits a retreat for +3 to Dodge, while few foes will risk Dodge and drop against a ranged attack because of the whole "and now you have waste turns getting back up, and have a Dodge penalty until you do" thing. Against a lot of enemies, "you can't retreat" is a lot like giving all ranged attacks a free Deceptive Attack.

The weakness issue is a bigger deal. The real problem is that arrows are for the most part either impaling or piercing, neither of which is great against the vast numbers of monsters who are Unliving, Homogeneous, or Diffuse, mostly because of the lower wounding modifiers (Exploits, p. 55), though Homogeneous and Diffuse creatures also get No Brain and No Vitals. I'd urge archers troubled by this to see Making Your Point (Adventurers, p. 105). Cutting points – especially if they are also fine, have Puissance, and/or are Corrosive, Fire, Consecrated, Cold, or Lightning arrows – are kind of nice.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

Against Diffuse enemies, the best choice is probably an arrow with an alchemical explosive warhead. Likely super-expensive in DFRPG, tho

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

Right. One of the things I like about the scout template is that the "wilderness fighter" theme isn't just color; the characters are really optimized for the outdoors. The targets there are mostly mundane humanoids and beasts; wide-open spaces let a scout pepper their juicy vitals with ease. Go underground, though, and it's all low ceilings and short melee distances and weirdo foes that laugh at arrows. The woodsy guys are going to have to find more specific vulnerabilities to shoot at, or load up on specialty arrows, or just break out the sword and play backup melee fighter.

So it goes with optimization. It's something the scouts and druids can lament together, over a mug of bracken ale or moss tea or whatever they go for.

(Aside to Phantasm: Yes, explosive arrows would be great for diffuse foes. But how to keep the arrow from just passing through the cloud-being and exploding against the wall far beyond? We need some sort of ghost-detecting proximity fuse!)

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

I really don't consider archers at disadvantage against Diffuse foes very much, load cutting arrows and your noodly archer hits that toxifier just as hard as a ST+Striking ST 2t half ogre knight with a very fine greatsword

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

Define "super expensive", sure, a lot of very effective potions are pretty expensive, but an Acid Bomb arrow would only be like 12$... and a Scout delivering a Flash Nageteppo into the midst of the enemy all the way over there can be a nice way to start combat.

And if you're planning on using a potion on an enemy anyway, why not let the guy who is the ranged combat master Hawkeye it at them...


Grenade Warhead, doubles cost and weight of arrow or bolt type, Acc -1, -5 to both range multipliers. Doesn't affect damage type of arrow or bolt.
(extrapolated from Low-Tech Chinese Fire Arrow rules)

This allows grenade concoctions† and potions, and throwable magic items to be delivered by an arrow or bolt, does not include weight or cost of concoction/potion/magic item. Takes 5 seconds to prepare the arrow, though warheads may be prepared in advance. Firing the arrow counts as 1 Round of shaking for Shakable potions. Fountain warheads have a diverter which turns Jets into Area weapons, Reach becomes Radius, duration is divided in half round up.

† Don't forget about Nageteppos...



New concoctions:

Fire Bomb (Grenade) This grenade is packed with Alchemical fire sand. Requires a Ready action to light, once lit it explodes in 1d-3 seconds (a successful Alchemy roll while lighting allows the user to increase or decrease the time by 1 sec) for 1d-1 cr ex. and 1 burn damage. $25, 1 pound.

Mind Fog (Grenade). Respiratory agent made from burned lacquer. Fumes affect a two-yard radius. Anything that breathes must make an immediate HT-3 roll. Failure means dizziness, confusion, and loss of focus: -3 DX and IQ for 1 minute. Success means only -1 DX and IQ for the same duration. Frequently used by ninja to disrupt pursuit or soften up a dangerous target. $300, 1 lb. (stolen from DF 12 Ninjas)

Glow Bomb (Grenade) Requires 1 ready action to prepare glow vial. Once prepared the vial glows as per normal. If shaken (requires a Ready) and thrown or fired in a Grenade Warhead, this bomb will spray the glowing liquid across a 2 yard area. Once the liquid is exposed to air, the glowing properties begin to wear off quickly, divide remaining glow duration by six. $50, 0.5 lb.





Alternately, I've allowed Archers to take either a modified Spell Arrow spell/Advantage if they are "multiclassing" into a Caster Profession, or Imbuements from Power-Ups 1 Imbuements. Both can make for very effective, if expensive (exp wise) ranged combatants.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

I like that--with 70 discretionary points, the Fighter is more attractive than the Swashbuckler for those who want to play heavy hitters.

Swashbuckler can get half-ogre [20], Extra Attack [25], and Striking ST+2 [10] for 55 points. On top of the built-in Weapon Master, Weapon Bond, and Luck that gives you a Light Edged Rapier 3d+4 cut attack (x3 for Rapid Strike and Extra Attack), with five points left over for expanding Weapon Master to cover knives for throwing and close combat, or purchasing extra Will, or extra Move.

By the book, a Knight's 60 points won't get him that far without using Quirk points. If you go half-ogre [20] and Weapon Master [20] to get similar damage output, that's five points shy of Extra Attack. (And you still are lacking the Swashbuckler's Enhanced Parry and Luck.) Releasing the hard dependency on Born War Leader (or just giving the Knight Born War Leader for free, which is actually what I'd prefer as GM) lets the Knight pick up e.g. a 3d+8 (cut) dwarven dueling glaive at almost the same level of base skill as the Swashbuckler (20 vs 20 + Weapon Bond).

There's still meaningful differences between them (Knight gets to wear heavier armor and use bows, Swashbuckler can throw knives 4x to 8x as quickly as the knight can fire his bow and is significantly harder to hit in melee; Knight has sacrificial parry while Swashbuckler has kiai, blindfighting and power blow; dueling glaives and rapiers have different strengths and weaknesses on a hex grid) but I like how those 10 extra points make the Knight more competitive as a melee specialist.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

Since this was necro'ed...

I have no issues with Knights in my game taking Heroic Archer, as long as there is no Scout Player already (or if they both are fine stepping on each other's primary combat niche).

A Heroic Archer Knight is a very different party role than a Scout.

Re: Is there a Fighter template?
 

The old Dragon Warriors RPG called this character type a knight as well. And it fits, as each character needs a social role as an adventurer. "Pure" fighters tended to be either knight/henchmen or mercenaries, and practically speaking, anybody on horseback with at least some metal armor is a "knight."