[MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

I'm looking for suggestions for what would be good weapons for someone to carry in a modern campaign that absolutely do not look like weapons and would not raise eyebrows with even the most severe law officer.

I'm thinking things like household tools or tools that could be carried in a toolkit in an automobile. Even something that you could carry in you pocket without it being regarded as a weapon, simply as a tool or other reasonable object for a person to carry.

Ideally, I'd like it if forumites could link to specific models of wrenches, flashlights, remotes, pipes, pens, rulers, rods or other measuring tools that would make good bludgeons, but still not look like a dedicated weapon.

Knife skill

1) What are some things that would be perfectly ordinary for someone to carry on themselves or next to them in a car that would have the stats of SHORT BATON?

That is, weigh around 0.5 lbs., be balanced, short enough to receive -1 Parry and be usable with Knife skill, do sw-1 cr and thr cr.

Shortsword skill

2) What is the least suspicious item you could use as a balanced BATON?

That would weigh around a pound, Parry at full skill and do sw cr and thr cr.

Axe/Mace skill

3) What would be a good KNOBBED CLUB that didn't look like it was made to be a weapon?

Should be around 2 lbs., well-balanced enough to Parry at full skill and do sw+1 cr.

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4) Any other good weapons in a modern setting that don't look like weapons and someone who absolutely cannot carry weapons legally could have in his car for self-protection?

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

A good sturdy umbrella. Any small metal flashlight could be useful.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

One option would be to carry an assortment of household tools. Pry bar (maybe as big as a crowbar), claw hammer, screwdriver, would not look out of place together. If you carry a bottle jack, you could have a sturdy jack handle for it. Any largish flashlight would not be out of place among automotive tools for changing a tire in the dark. For that matter, a tire iron.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

a piccolo, a stiff metal ruler, glass soda bottle, (musical) drumstick

a muscle roller stick (like runners use), leg part of an adjustable crutch, power strip with the cord snipped off, violin bow, large dog rawhide bone

a crescent wrench, a sturdy tennis (squash, racquetball) racket, golf clubs,


a cloth grocery bag with a can of beans in it, section of garden hose with a brass nozzle on it, a shovel, a lit (immediately before an incident) road flare, T fence post

I hope that helps.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

I've wanted this particular item since I discovered it existed: it's just an Umbrella with drastically improved DR and HP--it's perfectly legal everywhere, including on a airplanes, and any inspection will reveal it to be an umbrella.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

The instructor from my college kenjutsu class was extremely fond of the handle from a floor jack as a good thing to have in your car, both as a weapon and because floor jacks are much more convenient for actual lifting of a car

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Keys. I have a series of weird scars on my lower abdomen that is from a punch of keys clutched between someone's fist. EVERYONE has keys.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

A baseball bat. It can also use Two-Handed Axe/Mace and +1 to damage, when gripped by both hands. GURPS Zombies also has a cricket bat, which can also do double knockback by striking with the flat, at the cost of (0.5) armor divisor

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Most of the tools above are perfectly legitimate things to have somewhere in a car, less so if you step out of it.

I was hoping to nail down something with SHORT BATON stats that could be kept in a pocket and couldn't really be called a weapon. Best idea I've got so far is a flashlight that has the right shape and balance. Does anyone know of a specific flashlight model that would use the SHORT BATON stats?

Baseball bats have the disadvantage that outside of a specific sporting context, law enforcement officers, judges and juries have no difficulty declaring them 'weapons' and treating people accordingly for carrying them. Tire irons, in a car, are at least as dangerous, but much more easily explained.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Yeah, that's a Brawling fist-load, but it won't allow you any kind of Parry, even penalized, with an armed skill.

What's the smallest and least threatening thing you could carry to get a Party at -1 with your Knife skill?

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Steering wheel locks (aka club locks) haven't been mentioned yet. They used to be pretty common, but I don't see them much these days.

Are these meant to be off-the-shelf items, or will the person have made their own?

You could maybe take a vacuum cleaner tube and conceal some weights inside its length for a makeshift baton.

Camera tripods or monopods would work, although they're usually built to be light. They have the extra advantage of telescoping, and expensive or newer ones have quick-lock mechanisms.

Manfrotto is a popular high-end brand (Amazon link).

For that matter, you could try a selfie stick, if you add some weights to it.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

A cane is fairly traditional. It does look a bit odd beside you if you obviously don't need one.

You can put a sturdy screw on handle on a squeegee or snow brush, and nobody will find it out of place in your car, though you may need a couple seconds to screw the head off before you can use it as a baton or short staff.

An actual small knife is a reasonable thing to have in a tool kit, hiking pack or similar collection of equipment, at least most places outside of Europe. You can probably get away with a walking stick (or a pair of metal trekking poles) with that hiking pack too.

Other than tools, sporting equipment is probably your best place to look. Lots of sports and games involve hitting a ball with a relatively sturdy stick or paddle. By itself a baseball bat probably is suspicious, but thrown in your trunk with a glove, and a gym bag with shoes and change of athletic clothing it's not very suspicious. Likewise the shaft of an adjustable dumbbells with a couple of weights already attached, though you'll need a few seconds to take them off. Slightly less weapon like equipment might even ride in the front with you fairly innocuously - a ping-pong paddle doesn't scream weapon, but getting hit with one edge on will hurt more than a punch.

If you want to actually carry it around with you rather than have it in your vehicle, the cane (or crutch, hiking stick or trekking poles) is probably your best bet. At night a sturdy flashlight might work too, but finding one that is both durable and not suspiciously "tactical" might be difficult. An antique metal one maybe?

I suppose some unexceptional articles of clothing are better than nothing, and anybody can walk around with steel toed work boots or a belt with a heavy buckle without seeming terribly suspicious. If you are a woman from the right culture or ethnic group, hair sticks have a bit of a tradition too - some of them probably rate the wooden stake statistics off the shelf, never mind a disguised weapon version.

Edit: also consider what you might be able to disguise as "sex toys". A "dildo" strong enough to be a functional baton, or a light whip, might pass for that, and you have an excellent excuse for why you were carrying them "concealed". Indeed if they are caught on a routine stop everybody might be embarrassed enough not to look at them too closely.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

A hand weight? A candlestick? The base to the mag-mount antenna on your car? A wooden beer mug? Maybe that one uses Shield skill instead.

I think the issue here isn't so much finding something, as finding a reason to be carrying it. Nothing "everybody" carries around all the time is a useful weapon, because anything big and strong enough to be a weapon is inconveniently large and/or heavy. If it's big and long enough to count as a baton it probably won't fit in your pocket, certainly not comfortably. It has to be longer than your hand so some of it sticks out when you are gripping it, and your clenched fist is usually pretty close to filling the width of even a large pocket. All of this stuff is only innocuous situationally. If you have a reason to be carrying a tool belt (you're at a job site) or a hiking pack (you're somewhere people hike) or a heavy flashlight (it's actually dark), walking around with those is not something you are going to be asked about. If you carry them into city hall, exactly the same items are going to draw suspicions.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Maybe a pencil or credit card.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

While it's not great for a swung attack, a glossy magazine tightly rolled is sturdy enough to make good thrusting attacks, and would be perfectly adequate for parrying (aside from the problem most improvised weapons have - no guard) at least a few times. Keep it a car's map pocket or dash compartment, roll it up at need. If you've a few extra moments, maybe wrap some tape around it so it doesn't try and unroll if you lose your grip.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

I think those are too light to be useful parrying tools. Even by the rules. Parrying something more than 7 times its weight breaks the parrying tool on greater than a 6 in 6 chance and doesn't count as a parry. An unsharpened pencil I have here weighs in at 4.5 grams on my postal scale, 7 times that is 31.5 grams, or 0.070 lbs. You could attempt a thrust/imp stop thrust with a sharpened pencil, but you won't be parrying anything significant with it

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Fair enough.

A SHORT BATON need not be a very large item, however. It weighs 0.5 lbs. for a purpose-built weapon, so I'm hoping I can find a flashlight or something that could be used with the same skill and stats.

There are plenty of flashlights that qualify as KNOBBED CLUB or even SMALL MACE, but I want a smaller and lighter one than that. Something that genuinely is just a solidly built flashlight of reasonable size, which a middle-aged fellow who is always prepared, like a good Boy Scout, might always have handy.

He'll have a full-range of tools in the car which can be used with Axe/Mace and Shortsword skills, but nobody is going to put a tire iron in a pocket and even wrenches or steering wheel lock bars are pretty suspicious if you conceal them on you.

Mind you, the character has a Licence to Carry issued in Texas and legally carries a handgun. He also owns several electroshock weapons, including a TASER. He's just traveling to other states and wants to avoid legal trouble.

He knows where his LTC is honored and intends to stick to those states. But he doesn't have enough Law skill to be certain how those various states might view purpose-made self-defense weapons like TASERs, ASP batons or the like. Ideally, he'd want to carry a selection from his arms locker, but he's aware that TASERs are illegal for civilians in some jurisdictions, but doesn't know exactly where they are legal and what restrictions there might be on their carry, possession or use in certain states.

So he's not going to have anything on him that could land him in legal trouble, but he still wants to be able to subdue a person without killing them. And he wants to be able to turn that person over to the police while having a legal self-defense claim, because while if the occasion comes up, he plans to strike first, the potential threat would probably be a wanted criminal illegally armed. So, as long as he doesn't use an illegal weapon, he figures he can get away with hitting them from surprise, if he happens to notice anyone following him.

The character is a former cop, but not in the US, and while he is a professional security consultant, he doesn't have perfect information on self-defense laws in all US states. I mean, he can look them up, but driving through multiple states in a day, there's room for some error there and he wants to avoid risking arrest.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Which category these fit depends on their size:

A t-square
A bubble level
A sturdy mechanical pencil (especially good if you also carry a length of steel dowel or decorator nail you can put in instead of lead)
A wallet chain with a bunch of keys
Instrument strings
A screwdriver (with a multi bit kind you could maybe even sharpen one)
A table leg
A nine inch nail
A long bolt with a hand-size group of nuts screwed down to the end
A metal water bottle
A sturdy loaf pan
An electic guitar you dont mind sacrificing
A large carabiner clip you can get your fist into
Shelf hanger, garden gate, etc. hardware
Pipes, certain shapes of faucets, etc.
Cast iron frying pan
Rolling pin
Hefty spatulas and tongs
Sections of electrical panels etc.
Joist hangers
Luggage handles (esp. the long ones that slide into the back of the case)
Iron lawn/garden decor
Furniture or automotive springs
Certain medical or therapeutic braces

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

In that case, you might as well carry an actual baton. Get a dowel and paint it a bright color like in some children's toys if you want it to look a bit non-weaponish.

If you actually use something as a weapon it almost doesn't matter what it is. If your self defense claim will actually hold up in court, a jury isn't too likely to convict you instead because you had a stout stick, and with that sort of background using nothing whatsoever isn't going to avert suspicion. Looking innocuous is an issue for passing routine checkpoints, or being stopped "randomly" for looking or acting suspicious. It will not help very much if you are picked up because they are actually looking for you, and certainly won't help if you actually used the thing as a weapon.

Seriously, if you've got an actual concealed weapon permit somewhere, nobody is going to believe you didn't consider the weapon potential of something you were carrying before you decided to use it as a weapon. Not even if you actually hadn't.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Long stove or refridgerator door handles
Full length toolbox handles
Towel bars and shower curtain rods
Diatomesial earth insect control stuff in a squeeze-puff container/dispenser is NASTY in the eyes
Geometry set tools
A spiked dog collar or any L or F shaped bit of metal put prongs-up in your boot laces could improve kick damage
Anything like a folding handle or whatever that when removed is shaped like the jawbone of an ass
A grip-strength exerciser (possibly modified on the fly)
A big roll of wire or aluminum foil
Bike chain
Rods from a car seat
Heavy duty telescoping window squeegie handles
Certain custom gear-shift handles

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

A large bandana with coins tied in a corner. Hold the opposite corner and use as a flail.

From a Modesty Blaise book, lead foil as the stiffining of a wide cuff, tear the sleeve off, crush the cuff into a lumb and use as weapon. Lets you flick the cloth end at them first so they ignore it as a distraction and then reverse to the weighted end to drop them.

A carry bag with a dumbbell shaped wooden handle. Pull off and you have a fist load striker.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

A stainless steel serving tray with handle cutouts at the end/edge
Metal clipboard
A stainless steel reusable straw
Microphone, cymbal, projector-screen etc. stands or parts thereof
Metal egde protectors from ruggedized briefcases , laptops, etc.
TV or monitor wall mount parts
Axle rods for rolling garbage bins etc. or even sturdy toys
Folding kick-scooter or parts thereof
Propane torch bottle
Tiki torch stick

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Do these come in SHORT BATON size?

Around 0.5 lbs.?

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Any decent rope can be made into a flail by knotting it (if all you want is something on hand in case a brawl breaks out when you go to get soused that is an option). A fishing sinker can be tied in as an extra present if you want to be mean but that will annoy cops more. A rope can also be a garotte. Making a sling is a bit more difficult but by then it is not innocuous.

Sikh bracelets are mostly ethnoreligious heraldry but Sikhs are trained to use them as knuckledusters.

An ice ax isn't something you would normally be hefting around town, unless you were in a context where it would be unsurprising (like an outdoor store). But it makes a pretty good weapon, and a famous (if unimaginative from the crime writer's perspective) assassination was done with one.

Pretty much anything can be a club.

An automoble can ram someone.

A homemade IED can be made with a can or bottle. If you wish to disguise it treat it like what it is as much as possible.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Yep. On a seat that adjusts manually, consider the rod under the front you pull up to make it slide. Usually about 14" long and just under 1/2 " diameter.

EDIT: there are other more obscure parts under there too so different sizes are possible.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

None of these have any meaningful potential as a weapon, although the ruler and rawhide might be usable to parry a few times.

Good solid Maglite is probably your friend here.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

A pool cue (the kind that dismantles into two pieces) will give you a pair of short batons in a carrying case.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Buffy killed a vampire with a spatula.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Maglight flashlights used to be very popular around here. I own two of the six-cell kinds. It's metal, and can be easily used as a club. I wouldn't want to parry a real sword with it, but otherwise it should be fine. I even have aftermarket ends on the back designed to break though a car window if necessary. In a book I'm writing, the main character is using one when he's walking some girls home from a party. Though he hands it to somebody else before the danger starts.

Not what you want, Icelander, but a bunch of coins in a leather coinpurse makes a nice fist load or sap.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

That's right, it will.

Pretty neat.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

The six-cell Maglites are almost certainly Axe/Mace and might even count as SMALL ROUND MACE, i.e. be Unbalanced if you hit someone with it full-force. Even well-balanced large Maglites are probably KNOBBED CLUBs rather than using Shortsword skill.

What kind of flashlight, if any, might use Knife skill, i.e. be used with the same skill as a SHORT BATON?

Does a SHORT BATON need to be comparatively long and narrow, like a knife or half a or pool cue, or could you maybe use the Knife skill with a flashlight about the length and weight of a knife-sized machete?

If someone who is very good at using a machete with the Knife skill (i.e. a Falchion-ized LONG KNIFE) were to carry some kind of innocuous object that allowed him to use the same technique, what would that object be?

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

You know, I was skeptical, but getting one out and punching the end through a thick box and swinging it hard against a post without apparently damaging it, it's clearly got some attack potential and probably could parry at least a couple times. I have to admit this really is an innocuous object you could carry in a pocket anywhere these days that is at least marginally useful, though I doubt it's any better than a screwdriver, which isn't a particularly suspicious item either.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

I'd say if you can drop it through the ring of your closed fingers, it's less than 2 feet long, and it's balanced somewhere near the middle, it's probably a fine baton. A flashlight that didn't flare out at the lens end seems fair enough, and there are lots of vintage steel tube industrial and railroad flashlights that will probably do OK if you want to avoid the modern "tactical" look.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

At least one person has died from having one driven into her head in a fall.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

They also make titanium sporks (I bought a pair from Amazon, along with my titanium straws. I've been told that titanium doesn't effect the taste of food like steel does.

I've seen metal pen lights that should make an acceptable weapon. The problem with truly improvised weapons is that many of them won't stand up for very long. Of course, most fights don't usually last that long.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Most of the Mag-Lite brand flashlights have aluminum cases which make them tough enough to use as weapons. Similar brands should be readily available world-wide.

If you're wanting something that's truly extensible, but which can be (sort of) telescoped to fit into a (large) pocket, a collapsible camera monopod might be just heavy enough to work. Ditto for a heavily-built extensible selfie-stick.

Back in the day (early TL7), telescoping radio antennas were just heavy enough that they could be used as improvised stilettos or light batons.

An old style folding wooden measuring stick could be partially unfolded to make it into a baton - as long as the wood and the joints held. It could easily be made to fit into a pocket and might even be innocuous enough to make it through a security screen where the inspectors know what they're doing.

Drivers of heavy trucks can easily justify a short "tire thumper," or "tire club" used to determine whether truck tires are properly inflated. It is a billy club in all but name.

Of course, truly professional and cynical security officers are trained to think of just about anything as a weapon, even if it takes a cinematic ninja to use the item to inflict any real damage. In the U.S., airport screeners even confiscated nail clippers for a while!

Unless it's slightly unusual, doesn't seem to have any hard edges (either visually or on an x-ray), and instinctively puts the inspector at ease (e.g., a soft kid's toy, but not anything which might seem like prison contraband), they'll at least ask to take a closer look at it.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

You probably could parry *once*, but it would be broken much like a glass bottle.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Victorian and Edwardian ladies wore hat pins in order to keep the elaborate hair styles and hats of the day in place. They're freakin' lethal, consisting of a 8-12" long, thick wire spike with a decorative finial on the end. Useless for parrying, but capable of inflicting real (pi-) damage with a hard thrust to the torso or vitals.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Another option, if it fits Icelander's criteria, is to have something like a hollowed out laptop case sitting on his passenger seat, with whatever actual weapons he prefers to use kept inside.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

The good thing about an actual baton for a car weapon is that there are lots of excuses to have a 12-15" wooden (ok, select coppiced ash carefully dried) stick in your car. "Oh, I use that to prop the lid of our garage freezer open, I must have dumped it in the car after the last grocery run."

A mallet would be a good choice for the knobbed club as a car weapon, again "I was fencing my yard and it fell out of the bin when I was unloading supplies, I had been meaning to put it away for days."

In the old country and the new country, weapon carriage laws are all about intent. If you want to wait outside a bar with a heavy object, you can't tell the police officer that "its not a weapon officer, just a baseball bat."

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Sneaky. The problem with things like this is if the weapon has to be used, taking out of the case might take too long. It could also be viewed as intent to use it as a weapon.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

For this particular exercise, the NPC in question has a legally owned handgun on him in the car, another legally-owned handgun in a locked handgun storage box installed in the front area of the vehicle, several other legally-owned firearms in a locked gun case in the trunk, plenty of tools in the car usable with Axe/Mace or Shortsword and so forth.

However, there are places where you cannot legally carry a handgun, even if you have a Texas LTC and are in a state with a reciprocity agreement with Texas. Depending on states, that might be within a certain distance from a school, churches, National Park, etc. It also always applies within a business that makes 51+% of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages and it may apply in all bars in certain states or cities. Any establishment with a sign banning concealed carry also counts, obviously.

The character plans to follow the law, unless he has actually noticed someone following him. That being said, he also wants to have something that is perfectly legal in every state, innocuous enough to carry with him, but still useful to Parry with Knife skill at no worse than -1, as well as being able to make attacks that are more effective than bare-handed.

So, if he has to go in and pay at a truck stop where there's a sign that concealed carry is not allowed, what can he have with him that is not really a weapon, but can be used, in a pinch, as weapon-adjacent?

I'm thinking a fairly small flashlight.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Depending on the era, a good-quality slide rule of sufficient size could be used as a SHORT BATON (IIRC, this was mentioned in Steampunk, or possibly one of the High-Tech editions), and would be completely innocuous if you look nerdy enough. Of course, it probably wouldn't be a very good slide rule afterward.

Also depending on the era, some laptop batteries would work as (fairly heavy) SHORT BATONs. I know, because my first laptop had a battery of that type (long, balanced, and shaped like a thick, flattened cylinder), though fortunately, I was never put in a position to need to confirm its utility at a weapon. I wouldn't want to put it back in the laptop after using it in a fight, though.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

It's just over a year ago; end of 2018, beginning of 2019.

The character is fine with ruining any mundane object if he has to use it as an improvised weapon. After all, even if it weren't ruined, it would be taken into evidence, possibly for years.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Indeed.

I think that some light wrenches or a light tire irons might also be SHORT BATON or BATON, rather than the KNOBBED CLUB or SMALL MACE that heavier examples would be.

I'd be inclined to make even shorter balanced bludgeons than the SHORT BATON sw-2 cr and thr cr, analogous to the LARGE KNIFE vs. LONG KNIFE relationship. Lower than thr cr would be worse than a fist-load, so that's a lower bound, but without at least some length and leverage, I figure sw-1 cr is too generous.

There is a certain point at which an object makes a limited enough weapon so that most people would accept it as something used for improvised self-defense and not taken along as a deliberately planned weapon. I'm basically looking for something on that spectrum, i.e. less effective than a real baton or tire iron, but also something that even a moderately competent defense attorney could argue that a person had on them for perfectly reasonable reasons and most cops would be inclined to agree on that.

A flashlight that does sw cr or better and is stout enough to be used for repeated blows might indeed be viewed as a flashlight carried with intent to use it as a weapon. But at some point, flashlights are small enough so that they are not regarded as 'weapons' as much as 'flashlight someone happened to use to hit someone with'. I don't know if that line starts at sw-1 cr or sw-2 cr, but it has got to be around there somewhere.

Yeah, I see this character as wanting to have at least one KNOBBED CLUB in the car, just in case. Well, probably several in the tool kit in the trunk, but at least one should be up front in the car.

Also, this kind of thought experiment is useful for characters in modern campaigns in general. I estimate that every one of my characters, a good bit of PCs in campaigns where I am the GM and not a few NPCs have had to think about good innocuous objects to turn to the purpose of improvised weapons.

Just so.

But at a certain point, it becomes much more difficult to argue that a given object in that situation was clearly being carried as a weapon. That correlates pretty well with its utility as a weapon, of course, which is why I'm looking at the less effective, lighter and smaller bludgeons, not the obvious good 'improvised' weapons that are actually just decent weapons, like baseball bat, tire iron, heavy wrench, etc.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Well, what they can carry will depend heavily on their intended persona and alibi. A carpenter or electrician heading to work can carry things which would be grounds for suspicion in someone just hanging around. A camper in a national park can carry a Staff, Hatchet, and Large Knife without raising too many questions from the police/rangers.

Anything 30 cm/a foot or longer and sturdy enough to use as a weapon will need some justification if you end up using it.

Also: if it comes to court, I would expect the prosecution to bring up that the accused had a small arsenal in his vehicle, even if he did not use that arsenal for mayhem. In terms of intent, it is evidence. In the old country, there are heavy restrictions on carrying firearms in your vehicle for exactly that reason (in the middle ages, they had "no, you can't say that your ten strong servants are just carrying your swords for you" clauses).

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

In short, I would go about this the other way around.

In general, objects which are long, strong, and heavy enough to be an effective lever and bludgeon are enough of a bother to carry that you need a plausible excuse and can't easily conceal it. People don't just walk around with big heavy steel flashlights unless they need them for the job they are doing right now.

Most experienced cops can see the affordances of anything that can be used as a weapon and are used to the obvious excuses for carrying a concealed weapon (a friend was once held up with a screwdriver because that is not a knife). So either you stick with things under 25 cm long that fit in a pants pocket, with stats similar to the Small Knife, or the tool should follow from your intended persona.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

The persona would be a fairly normal motorist or tourist, a middle-aged guy of the kind who has a multi-tool, duct tape, string, WD-40, notebook, pencil, disinfectant, aspirin, petroleum jelly, Ace bandages and a range of other mostly harmless things that make up the small version Personal Basics and the most basic of first-aid gear on him at all times.

A flashlight seems to fit with that. Not a 2-lb one, more like a 0.5-lb one.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Here you go -- carry one or a couple of these (or even slightly smaller). In original commercial packaging it should be quite innocuous. Screw a flanged nut down to the bottom of the threading and you've got a little hilt too and a way to make the hand-hold longer and more comfortable.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

A big flashlight, the kind that takes roughly 1" diameter batteries, sounds like a good choice for the character to keep in a hip pocket (or in cargo pants?)

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

My sister has a small metal flashlight. It's about 8" long and 1" in diameter on the barrel, with the lens being larger. It has a compass on the back end, so I assume that it was marketed as a "survival" device. It would have appealed to my dad (she was taking care of him when he died).

It looks like an aluminum case. It feels sturdy, but I'm not going to wack it against anything to try to test it. :)

It does give out a decent LED beam.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

About how much does it weigh?

I'm looking for a flashlight in that approximate size range.

The character may elect to own an old TL7 model in stainless steel, for reasons of supernatural nature, but otherwise, this sounds about right.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

The classic "built like a brick" flashlight is the Maglite, particularly the C or D-cell models (MN1400, MN1300 respectively). The Ds come in 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6-cell models, the Cs in 2, 3 and 4 as far as I know; while it's not an option offered by Maglite, I have known people who mounted side handles onto the case (though in the UK at least that's legally a bit dodgy, as it shows you were expecting to use the thing as a weapon, rather than just happening to have it with you when you were attacked). All aluminium cases as far as I know. Maglite have been slow to offer LEDs, but even if the model you want is only available in incandescent, there are plenty of third-party conversion kits.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

A swanson brand speed square, is interesting. I mention the swanson brand, because their aluminum squares have a shape that is conducive to gripping them almost like a katar or punch dagger. And used as a fistload, you can easily crack someones skull with it by punching with it. And it's innocuous, because you can stick one in your back pocket and almost no one thinks of it as a weapon.

I think canes are probably the next best. I'm a really big fan of canes: you can easily get into a bar with a cane, people will often assume some sort of disability or impairment from you if you're using one, and if they're made out a good hardwood, well, it's a nice balanced wooden sword you can whack folks with.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

No need to mess around with flashlight statistics.

HT52 Tactical Lights aka Maglites.

LC4 in most jurisdictions as long as you don't mount it on a gun.

Nobody is gonna detain or search you for having a flashlight.

Looking at the taclight when it is enabled prompts HT-4 roll to avoid being blinded for Margin Of Failure times 10. Which is minimum 10 seconds.

Small Tactical Light is used as Brass Knuckles (DX or the three striking skills) in combat (see basic set for stats)

Large Tactical Light is used as a baton (Shortsword) in combat (see basic set for stats)

TL8 Large Taclight is 0.5 lbs. Small one is 0.25

TL7 Large Taclight is 1 lbs, Small one is 0.5

Martial Arts 224 has other 'mundane' weapons.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Well, what does that mean in terms of real flashlights?

The stats are easy, I want to know what brand and model, exactly, the character carries.

I want a TL7 Tactical Light, exactly at the midpoint between Large and Small, i.e, usable as a SHORT BATON instead of a normal BATON, and thus making use of the Knife skill.

What real-world TL7 (probably 1970s or early 1980s vintage) flashlight was much beloved by police officers worldwide and would be usable as a shorter version of the 1-lb Large Tactical Light, weighing something around 0.75-1 lbs.?

What are TL7 Tactical Lights, anyway?

That is, who made the most popular models?

What is the iconic 1970s police flashlight?

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Maglite. As you can see they come in many shapes. Just assume TL7 Medium TacLight is 0.75 lbs and can be used as short baton.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/S/...SR285,285_.jpg

P.S.: Earliest maglite existed since 1979, you can probably search around for maglite precursors but "A rough large flashlight you can bonk people on the head with" is not a patented invention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Lite - wiki lists this as Maglite precursor.

Article with picture regarding Kel-Lite Gen 1, as you can see extremely similar to maglite.

https://otherflashlights.blogspot.co...early-kel.html

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

How about a windowbreaker wielded as a knuckleduster?

Late TL7 and Early TL8 Cop Lights
 

It looks like a Kel-Lite 3C light (1.5 lbs.) would be a balanced SHORT BATON if wielded with the head used as a grip and could be a BATON (with Shortsword skill) or a less effective KNOBBED CLUB (with Axe/Mace skill) at sw cr damage if used with the heavier head as the striking surface.

Any of the bigger lights couldn't be used with Knife skill at all and are either Shortsword or Axe/Mace skill, depending on how balanced they are. I'd personally allow the use of either for most of them, unless you went for a really big and heavy head, in which case you'd be limited to Axe/Mace skill, but would get a relative +1 to damage. The heaviest would be Unbalanced weapons, of course.

TL7 Flashlights
 

Does anyone know what UK and Commonwealth police used for lighting in the 1940s to the 1980s?

What did cops use before everyone used Kel-Lites and then Maglites?

What is the Commonwealth version of a Kel-Lite and later Maglites?

Were there ever any flashlights, military, police or survival, that had a body made out of stainless steel?

This might have been before aluminum became cheap enough for the purpose or it might have been for ultra-rugged models. I don't know.

Anyone know about any TL7 stainless steel flashlights?

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

I think the umbrella--particularly the "unbreakable umbrella" referenced above--causes the least amount of suspicion. You walk into a rest stop or office building with a flashlight in your hand, people will wonder why you have it. Nobody wonders why someone has an umbrella on their person, unless it's Arizona in the middle of a drought--but even then, it would just be peculiar, not "he's going to use that as a weapon."

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

An umbrella can provide shade from the sun.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Umbrellas are longer than most other bludgeons in the modern world and are therefore used with skills much fewer people who know how to fight in the real world have, Broadsword or Rapier. Far more people familiar with military combatives, police arrest techniques or realistic self-defence will have Axe/Mace, Knife, Shortsword and even Spear or Staff than will have Broadsword.

Also, most umbrellas, even if they are longer, which allows better leverage, are also fairly light for their length and their striking surfaces are fairly soft if you swing with them. So they are not any better as weapons than much shorter objects that are heftier and more solid.

It's true that flashlights that make genuinely good batons and maces are large and heavy enough to raise some eyebrows from casual witnesses and especially security personnel. Which is why the character won't simply use the most effective bludgeon Maglite he can find and I'm trying to keep the size and weight of his flashlight down to a more reasonable figure, something that the sort of people who are handy and perpetually prepared might actually carry on them.

Personally, when I see a motorist with a 200-300 gram (0.5-0.75-lb) flashlight in a jacket pocket or on their belts, I think: "I guess he likes to be prepared if he has an engine malfunction driving in the dark" (and also, I admit "that old guy reminds me of my grandfather").

Flashlights that are larger and heavier than they need to be to serve as an effective light might trigger caution and distrust, as they are obviously designed in part as bludgeoning weapons. But a lot of people still own old flashlights, which were a lot bigger than flashlights need to be today for good brightness and acceptable battery endurance, so as long as the size isn't too big, I'd accept them as simply the kind of annoying, but useful motorists who love it when other people have malfunctions, so they can demonstrate how very prepared they were for anything.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

I have a collapsible umbrella that's under 2 feet collapsed, so it would qualify as a shortsword.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

FWIW, some 19th-century self-defense manuals address the use of the umbrella defensively. The most convincing of them use it primarily as a thrusting weapon.

Gripping with both hands and thrusting into someone like a bayonet would be much more harmful than swinging it like a club.
And if you have the hooked handle umbrella, that can affect a pretty wicked "butt-stroke".

The hooked handle can also be used to, well, Hook.

TL/DR: While many taught umbrella defense as an alternative to a cane, it's more effective to think of it as a bayonet.

Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons
 

Middle-aged people are also used to cars which broke down more often and needed more home maintenance than cars today, so more likely to carry tools, a flashlight, etc. Its like how we will be amusing our grandchildren by carefully limiting the volume of liquids we pack for flights, and putting them all in one clear plastic bag. "Grandpa, they don't care about that any more!"

I was just thinking that someone who looks like Rory Miller will have a harder time pulling off 'you wouldn't deprive an old man of his walking stick' than someone who looks lean and fit or middle-aged and paunchy.