IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

How would you cover finding and downloading software and other files in a Cyberpunk game? Streetwise? Area Knowledge (the Net)? Computer Operation?

Obviously, don't do this in real life.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

I do remember some setting where chips with illegal software were sold just like drungs, so Streetwise might help there.
Area Knowledge would help you find places within the cyberspace where such software is available.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

I'd use Computer Operation for both finding and downloading such software. Streetwise or other social skills can be used as complementary skills, representing asking around for what software exists that solves your use case. If you're good/lucky, someone will give you a download link.

For stealing software, you may have to use Computer Hacking. This will be necessary if the software isn't publicly available (you have to break into a private server) or if you normally would need a license key to use the software.

Obviously, I don't do these things in real life, either.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

Contacts might work if you're getting it from something like "The Dark Web" where you're relying on being given an address...

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

Well if you weren't downloading it but finding a copy on physical media it'd obviously be Streetwise, just like locating anything else on the black market.

If I were running a game where this sort of thing is going to be a major issue, and cyberpunk does tend that way, I'd be tempted to call it a new required specialization of Streetwise - covering all the shady or illegal sorts of things Streetwise normally does - finding black markets, making contacts, identifying the gangs, finding buyers for stuff you stole, impressing the local toughs etc. but in or with respect to virtual space.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

Since Computer Hacking is strictly a cinematic skill, in a more realistic setting you'd probably need to fall back on Streetwise (to get yourself into Dark Web sites where they'll hook you up with what you want), Cryptography (to crack encryption), or Research (to find obscure information or downloads). Actually accessing a restricted server might use Cryptography, Computer Programming (to engineer scams to trick someone into giving you access), or even Fast-Talk (to convince someone to give you a password).

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

Research/TL8-9 could also be an option for finding such software as an alternative to Streetwise (The Net) or Area Knowledge (The Net). In any case, I might ask for a Computer Operations roll to download the software and making sure it isn't a trojan/malware.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

I'd use the Stealing rules from DF but computer operations instead of Filch. Success get it free, fail and get hit by Black ICE, the law or malware

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

A specialization of Streetwise - Streetwise (Cyberspace), which I'll call Cyberwise for short - for navigating things like warez sites, torret sites, etc without getting your system riddled with malware or rooted, or attracting the authorities, may be appropriate as a skill. This may share a default with Research. A system with particularly strong security software (or running an operating system with particularly strong built-in security, even if it's just "security through obscurity") will make you less likely to get infected/rooted, as would running things off of a virtual machine. Use of an anonymization strategy of some sort - the classic running off of unofficial proxies, bot-nets, or something akin to TOR - would make it less likely for you to be discovered by law enforcement. Either would be appropriate to give a (potentially rather-sizable) bonus.

Roughly speaking, roll against Cyberwise to find the software for illegal download. Success means you find it, Failure means you don't. On anything but a Success with MoS 5+ or Critical Success, the GM should roll 3d6 on the Complication Table, below. Using a highly-secure system gives a bonus of +1 to +2, while using an anonymizer gives a similar bonus; these normally do not stack, but using 2 +2 systems is good for a total of +3. Note this is simply due to the fact that your more secured/obscured system allows you to browse more freely. This bonus does not directly reduce the chance of a Complication (so it doesn't improve your chance of a Critical Success or reduce your chance of a Critical Failure, and it should be ignored when determining Margin of Success/Failure).

3-4: Your machine is exposed to a zero-day root exploit, giving malicious characters full access to your machine without your awareness. You functionally gain Enemy (Watcher; Secret) while using this machine in the future. Optionally, roll 1d; on a 1 or 2, the software you downloaded is the vector, affecting any machine you put it on (if you get this result on a Failure, the software you downloaded doesn't work aside from infecting your machine). Otherwise, you were exposed at some point while browsing.
5-6: Your machine is infected with ransomware, and locks you out unless you pay a large sum of money to get access again. As with 3-4, this may be linked to the software downloaded.
7-8: Your machine is infected with generic malware/viruses. This functions as a program running at one Complexity level lower than your computer's Complexity level, and there's a chance of files going missing or becoming corrupted. As with 3-4, this may be linked to the software downloaded.
9-12: No Complication. If you get this result on a Failure with MoF 5+, or any Critical Failure, reroll. If you get this result again, treat as 7-8, above.
13-16: You attract the attention of the authorities, but only in the form of a fine for copyright violation or similar.
17-18: You stumble into a law enforcement honeypot without realizing it, and are now being pursued by Enemy (Hunter; Secret) for arrest.

If using a highly-secure system, you are less likely to be infected. This takes the form of a retroactive bonus from +1 to +5. If you get a result of 3-8 on the Complication Table, and the retroactive bonus would have given you MoS 5+, there is no Complication (unless the software itself is affected, in which case you are informed the software has a problem, but can run it safely on this system or any other with a similar level of protection). If using an anonymizer, you are less likely to be detected by the authorities; this functions much like the above, but only to prevent results 13-18. In cases where you have MoF 5+ and roll 9-12, if the retroactive bonus would have put MoF below 5, no reroll is necessary. If using a virtual machine, a Critical Failure (only) and a result of 3-4 means your main machine is affected, in all other cases any sort of security-related Complication only affects the virtual machine.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

If you need to actually interact (probably electronically) with another person to find the thing that's streetwise, but area knowledge would cover knowing the location of popular torrent sites and the like.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

*checks* OK, looks like I was mistaken on what Streetwise covered - I thought it was also the skill you used to identify things like bad areas in town, places to acquire illegal goods/services without getting busted, etc, but it's actually just about interacting with the types of people one might find in such places. What skill(s) would that be, when in an area you haven't been to before? My suggested Cyberwise is more of that flavor - it's what you use to help determine if a site, torrent, etc is a good one to get a clean copy of the software you're looking for, as well as to find such for review in the first place (via websearches, checking/posting in relevant forums, etc), without getting caught. I'd say Area Knowledge and the like would work as a complementary skill to it - you know where to typically find reliable torrents, say, but you'd still need Cyberwise (or whatever it would be called) to help you pick out the "legitimate" ones from those riddled with malware, monitored by authorities, etc.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

For software that's legal to possess, just expensive, it isn't that hard. I've done some of this, with a white hat on, looking for websites that were selling pirated copies of my employers' products.

Having a point in Research/TL8-9 is plenty of skill to find the stuff, and downloading and scanning the stuff with a couple of good anti-virus programs will get you a long way. Having the correct hashes for clean copies allows you to be pretty damn sure it's good, and those are easier to get by social engineering than said clean copies.

Remember that many of the conventions of classic cyberpunk were established in the days of modem-speed connections and primitive search tools. Things are different now, and will be in a plausible future.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

My current approach would be to use the Research skill and the Computer Operation skill level as a limit for that (limiting the maximum effective skill for the roll). Moreover I would also apply Familiarity (-2) if the character is not familiar with the "underground" part of the net.

On the other hand, as has been suggested, I would allow Streetwise as a complementary roll, too!

Regarding the typical "scene" connection stuff, it would fit very well IMO to give a good bonus (I'd use +2) if a character knows an underground starting point for the research. That bonus could be gained by informations from a contact for instance. (I'd give higher bonuses if the character knows many underground hot spots).


PS: In case the character wants to be stealthy in the net, too, trying to cover the tracks during the research, I would use Computer Hacking for that (or alternatively an extra Computer Operations roll at -5, if a campaign does not use the Hacking skill).

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

Nobody mentioned Scrounging yet?

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

Don't forget there's also Expert Skill (Computer Security), which is sort of the realistic version of Hacking.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

I'd say to use the rules for finding sellers and informants in Social Engineering. Either SE23 for individuals who have or can provide the software, or SE46 for access to an archive (of cracked software).

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

Fascinating topic, who doesn't love Cyberpunk

IMHO, Software 'downloading' has a pile of topics:

* installed: no protection or call back, there is no dongle or license and if so no entitlement verification or enforcement ... sort of rare.

* hybrid or zero install: application is part of a sandbox framework (itunes) or is online entirely (office 365, salesforce, photoshop, world of warcraft, etc) ... platform agnostic, robust compatibility and maintenance, and of course a superior business model.

* protection or callback is removed with a patch or crack to remove the need it ... useful, but malware dominates this space.

Tech Boundaries:

* data: even with scifi holographic (or whatever) storage there isn't a useful way of imagining being able to store a subject matter expert level on portable media and be able to process it. (here is where the data is coupled with the brain clearly)

* data set protections: commercial datasets have various rogue elements in them that are put there to identify theft. So mailing lists made available to someone might have information in it that is specific to the sale to that person, if someone else uses that information the seller knows the vendor resold or otherwise violated their EULA. This can also expose itself with stolen data that a paid processor would not show errant data, but a illegitimate one would.

* supportability: modern software is rarely a one trick thing and many of them, but rather are platforms and ecosystems. Finding one piece of software may be very hard or cause interoperability issues. Perhaps not a big deal for skateboarding, but weapon systems abilities and tactics skills not being able integrate may a gross blindspot.

Cyberpunk Obsolescence (Cyberpunk: State of the Art p79)

* The idea that 'knowledge' software would cease being useful is hard to imagine. A chip that might give me DX14 skateboarding or IQ13 Chess, how can that go bad? That type of software might be quite useful. But it would be foolish to think that it would be permanent.

Here is a good example of how such things are made to fail as well.

https://www.theverge.com/2012/3/26/2...ic-allegations

* It might be easy to get 'used' or 'cloned' chip grafts, the side effects are likely as great as any bootleg medical device or procedure.

* Older software might be cheap and easier to crack and what's wrong with classic skateboarding skill?

I would suggest that the hosting mechanism for these modules is going to be the business end of things, your implant can run various brands or styles of apps (like android, iphone, chrome extensions, or like audio daw run various vst).

These hosting platforms are likely what protect you from all the mental stress (psychosis) and so forth. They also likely provide you with the overall ecosystem of implants. You may not be able to have a Android Guitar implant and a Apple skateboard implant concurrently. If you do you might have a significant overhead of some resource.

Self-Defense / Downsides

* What are the Corps able to do if you violate their EULA? Well, maybe not turn off your heart willfully, but they could likely be annoying if they bricked your implant and related services (that service might include housing agreeement, employment, treated water, travel permits, citizenship trust rating, etc)

* Biometric keyed encryption, likely apps are downloaded and installed for your brain alone. This might be a good thing as 'true identity' station to station encryption might be quite utopia-like with this sort of keying.

* If you obtain someone's phone or online account today, you are on borrowed time before that gives up on you. If you are obtaining stolen software from someone, they may not share the time until bricked or 'ban hammer' with you.

* Stolen accounts (or account sharing) is likely something that is rapidly banner hammered with a vengeance. Family plans and holistic licensing (software, hardware ... homeware) is likely a thing, where a whole livelihood is at stake.

Emulation

* It may be possible to have a scifi brain emulator that allows you to change identities (likely with a performance overhead and various limitations) and maybe some quirks like a Firefox "you must think in Russian" or maybe a side effect that it makes you talk in Russian (and dream in black and white)

* DIY: maybe there are software platforms that are 'just as good-ish', where they provide limited access to various software (wine, mame) and are seen as alternatives to the Corp software (Linux).

End

* I think you could get cracked autonomous software (doesn't need the net), it likely works in frequency of reliability compared to cost ... and the player doesn't know that frequency. The more portable and newer it is, the higher the cost.

* Unreliable likely is dangerous, like fright check dangerous. Seizures, sense loss, heart issues, chemical imbalances, emotional issues, sleep issues, cognitive grossness.

* Very intrusive lie detection is likely a mechanism for software updates, "are you or have you ever". Someone that is horribly corrupt may have issues using such platforms (psyche not compatible with iphone13 and remote update)

* Identity theft / spyware (ghostriding) and so forth might be techniques that allow people to use software services they couldn't normally do so. Gruesome abductions to use someone's software may be the kidney thieves of tomorrow.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

Cyberpunk says nothing about subscription-based software, for example, because it mostly didn't exist in the 1980s. If I want a modern version of Adobe Photoshop without paying the subscription fee, then copying a set of installation media won't help me; I'll have to get access to someone's subscription, with or without their knowledge, and depending on how and from where I use it that subscription may get closed down as a result.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

Ironically, some of the military grade stuff may be easier to steal as, presumably, it won't be designed to run with permanent network connectivity…

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

Yes and no.

For software to be used in the field by small squads, having constant and reliable network access is likely not going to be expected. But it will likely phone home periodically (every x minutes/hours), to get updated data or relay progress. It may also increase the possibility of recovering expensive hardware and highly valuable operatives with sensitive knowledge. There's also the possibility of deterring defectors if they know they can be tracked (or even shut down). You could set up some adventure seeds with this.

Any software used in a vehicle could likely be expected to have very frequent (if not constant) communication with a home server. And software used in a military run facility is almost guaranteed to require a constant connection to a specific server cluster.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

What does 'military grade' mean in this context? Most of the software the military has that's unique to the military is unique because no-one else actually needs that particular capability (unless we're treating the intelligence services as military).

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

That and the lower of Research or Computer Operation is the direction I'd go.

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

Wouldn't that put a huge electronic warfare burden on the forces using this sort of software/firmware? Not only is signals silence going to be completely rodgered by its incontinent use of the comms systems, but presumably if you jam it, the user starts being spammed with system errors...


It's a trope for most cyberpunk settings that there is civilian grade operating systems and what have you and military stuff that is full of better. I was thinking that part of the better might be that it doesn't need to be permanently hooked up to the interwebz and what have you, but see above,

Re: IN-GAME ONLY: Downloading software illegally
 

If you use "Military Grade" the same way classic Cyberpunk does, you'll almost certainly need similar hard/software to counter it, unless you're a prodigy who could hack [insert super secure facility] with a TI-81.

For more realistic "Military Grade", modern vehicles with moderately advanced computer systems already phone home on a near constant basis. A spec-ops team might have custom software that doesn't call home at specific intervals, but it seems more likely to me that a team that needs to go completely radio silent will not have any custom hard/software at all. Or if they do, it will likely be a competitor's/rival nation's products in an attempt at misdirection (and preserving trade/state secrets).

Wireless signal jamming requires a large amount of power if you want to cover an area larger than a single house, and you'd also be jamming your own communications in the same frequency band. Which would mean little if the team is using a different band to communicate. Heck, if there's a geo-location service that reliably covers the area, the offensive team could just work with the same type of communication (maybe even try to hide in the geo-location data stream). Of course, once the offensive team is inside a facility the defenders do get an advantage in this field. But that would still be the case without software that calls home every x hours.