How does 'reloading' relate to other actions?
 

This question came up in a game today, where two orcs were using light crossbows. As with my other questions, I'm working from the "Two Complete Games in One Box" rules.

So it's clear that with a DX of less than 14, a light crossbow can only fire every other turn. What is less clear is what option(s) they can take on the turn in between firing. I spontaneously ruled that they couldn't do anything (they were reloading), but this doesn't seem to be covered in the written options, or where missile fire / missile weapons are explained. Maybe in line with other complex actions, they should be allowed to move one hex? Or maybe (less logically) they could take another action?

Is there an official rule about this (maybe from the advanced rules), or have I missed something?

Re: How does 'reloading' relate to other actions?
 

Just looking at the list of Options it is not clear.
Only mention of 'reload' is under engaged figures it says may not ready or reload a missile weapon.

Under options for disengaged figures 'Ready New Weapon' is the closest fit for reload but does not mention it.

Re: How does 'reloading' relate to other actions?
 

Melee p16. "Reloading a crossbow comes under Ready New Weapon for all purposes." That's option (e)

Re: How does 'reloading' relate to other actions?
 

Thanks, I somehow managed to miss that. So they get to move up to two hexes too.

Re: How does 'reloading' relate to other actions?
 

This is where I put reloading.

Re: How does 'reloading' relate to other actions?
 

Not arguing about RAW, but realistically with a crossbow what is taking the time is not reloading but spanning, or cocking, it. Hard to imagine you'd be moving much while using a stirrup, or a goat's foot, or whatever to span your crossbow.

Re: How does 'reloading' relate to other actions?
 

That is a good point, although I think TFT imagines that people who can span a crossbow in 1 to 3 turns are strong enough to do it by hand. When using a cranequin, yeah the figure should probably not be able to move around.

Re: How does 'reloading' relate to other actions?
 

the rules say a cranquin takes longer, so yes, i would assume a ST 12 character is handcocking, (or ST15 respectively as this takes twice as long anyways) and still the two hex MA would still be an option as this is when they are dropping a bolt onto the nut.

Another house rule to consider, just as 2 handed weapons maybe be used in one hand by a Strong character, ST plays a huge roll in spanning a crossbow, you may want to consider the 3+ rule to allow an acceleration on this, it give a little *** for tat on the DX crowd vs: the ST crowd, as many will argue that a 14+ DX is really not any more responsible for a quick reload of a Light cross bow, than a ST 3+ over would equally be. In fact a 15+ST character probably isn't even using the "stirrup" but just muscling it back like a 160 lb Longbow still at the ready.

Heaven forbid a mechanician ever figures out a "magazine" to drop a few bolts into as a modification.

Re: How does 'reloading' relate to other actions?
 

The ancient greeks had a crossbow, called gastrophetes (something like that) which meant belly bow. It was know as early as 5th century BCE.

That is what I think of as a light crossbow.

Re: How does 'reloading' relate to other actions?
 

I think in the real world it takes massive strength to hand cock a light crossbow (120 - 200 lbs pull weight) though a regular person could do it by sitting down and using their feet against the bow. It's hard to compare real world to TFT world, but when comparing bow and crossbow damage, the TFT crossbows are really heavy and heavier.

If you want to do as much damage as a longbow with a crossbow then I believe you are using a pull weight of around 500 - 600 lbs and I don't think anyone is hand cocking that. Maybe someone can? Now imagine trying to do that multiple times in a row for a combat situation - I'm guessing that would never happen.

If we accept TFT damage figures so our longbow does 1d+2 then that would mean a TFT "light" crossbow has a draw of around 900 and the heavy would have to be at least at the top weight produced in the medieval period. That would also remove our possibility of hand cocking.

I'm just regurgitating what I remember from vids on medieval stuff - Tod's Workshop, etc. Also, I realize this is a game and not reality.

Re: How does 'reloading' relate to other actions?
 

Tod uses a goat's foot to span a 500 lbs crossbow for one shot every ten seconds with results about correct for a light crossbow. The problem is that TFT armor is about half as effective as it ought to be.
https://todsworkshop.com/blogs/blog/...anning-methods

Re: How does 'reloading' relate to other actions?
 

Yeah, but I really wouldn't want to mess with the armor rules cuz then it seems like everything would need to be recalibrated from scratch.

From the vids I've watched, the goat's foot does seem like maybe the fastest means of spanning a crossbow. I notice that Tod tends to toss it on the ground though, while in TFT you'd want to re-sling it in case you were going to move, and that might save him a couple seconds? But I agree that you can make the argument a light or medium crossbow could be fired every other turn by someone with good dexterity.

Of course, over the centuries you've got many different crossbow designs and tools for spanning them, while in the game most of us are only going to use a few. In your part of Cidri, there might be only three spanning methods available and goat's foot isn't one of them.

I've put together house rules for bows. Still tinkering, of course. I'm not trying to turn the game into a simulation, but I'd like the bow rules to be more intuitive and to emphasize the difference between choosing a bow or a crossbow. I don't know if hardly anyone else would be interested, but I seemed to need to do this.

When we're looking at real world use, that's typically for hunting or for military use. In a small unit game, like TFT, how much damage per second a character can produce is a huge factor. But in a military battle it makes sense to make a heavy crossbow that you can only fire twice in a minute. In battle you need range and you probably don't have enough quarrels to last through the whole battle anyway. Also, you may well have an assistant who is cocking one bow for you while you aim and fire with the other. You probably wouldn't be likely to bring a monster like that with you into a dungeon skirmish situation.

Re: How does 'reloading' relate to other actions?
 

Another video from Tod's Workshop. watch him cock the 350lb crossbow with a goat's foot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC30A6noRmY

Keep in mind that Tod is not a professional "crossbowman" as expressed by the Crossbow Talent.