shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

If you have a unit engaged with two different enemies at the same time, what happens when you want to shift around one enemy, but that would disengage you from the other enemy? Is that allowed, or are you stuck between the two enemies?

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

You may shift "IF" it does not disengage you from anyone you are engaged by.

If you want to shift and it will disengage you from anyone engaging you, choose the 'Disengage' option.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

A multi-hex figure can simply shift away from all the little people that are engaging it. (ITL 103) So wait for the munchkins to move then shift away to apply dragon breath or one-handed pikeaxe jabs.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

There's nothing in the rules that say that, though. The closest thing is it talks about disengaging when engaged with multiple units under the "DISENGAGING" section.

Nothing under the various SHIFT descriptions puts limitations on how you shift (ie, it doesn't say shifting can't disengage). I think the wording under DISENGAGING does imply your only option is disengaging, rather than shifting.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

ITL p 11 "Shift – A movement of one hex on the game board, in
which you remain adjacent to each foe with whom you
were engaged"

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

Ok, that works, but I'm specifically talking Melee rules. Those don't adequately address the issue.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

In which of your posts was Melee mentioned?

I missed it.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

That's my fault. I don't know either, so didn't know there was a difference. Thanks.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

It doesn't make a difference. See (the new) Melee page 8: (bold emphasis mine)

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

The last sentence of the original post has the gist of it; unless you can disengage, you are effectively stuck between your opponents. Your position on the map might change, but you'll still be stuck between them.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

Thanks, everyone. I can't tell you how many times I read that and didn't see it.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

It happens to everyone! The core rules of TFT are very tight and well engineered, but it can be hard to find and keep track of them, even though there really aren't that many. Someone should write a short, dense rules manual in the style of Squad Leader or one of the other old-school hex and chit board games.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

I knew multihex creatures can shift onto foes but I never saw that they can shift away from foes. Thanks for pointing this out.

So, does this mean a multihex creature may shift away from all one hex foes engaging it? Or, does it mean a multihex creature may shift away from all but one (thus still shifting around the one)?

Either way, the multihex get a free disengage move during movement.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

"a multi-hex figure must be in a front hex of two small
figures to be engaged (3 if it is 7 hexes or longer)......
A multi-hex figure also moves only one hex when it shifts.
However, the shift may carry it onto one or more one-hex
figures and/or away from one-hex figures with which it was
engaged" ITL p103

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

So clearly it pays to play a Centaur with a Halberd. Just alternate shifting away from foes and declaring standing defense against their charge attacks at adjDX 14. (Spinning in place as needed.)

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

Anyone controlling a multi-hex figure or a flier needs to carefully review the relevant rules for engagement, movement, HTH, push-backs and trampling. Played properly, such figures are much, much tougher than you would guess from simple toe-to-toe exchanges of attack rolls. This is particularly true of dragons, who are completely different combatants when you let them fly (and understand what this lets them do).

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

Thanks. I want to run some combats against large creatures, but I need to study those rules some more. Are there any examples here on this message board?

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

I don't think there's a worked example posted.

There were some discussions here at one point about mounted combat.

As for flying combat, one post that might be useful (or more confusing) is my thread asking and eventually trying to answer various questions about the aerial combat rules.

I've run some playtest flying actions with large dragons since I last posted there. If you have questions about it, maybe add a post there or in the House Rules sub-forum.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

See my video of footloose giants here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7SZ9AHpKFI&t=16s

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

The most significant things about flyers is that they are able to avoid engagement from figures on the ground, under any circumstance I can easily think of.

Perhaps the second most significant thing is that their flying MA is usually high enough that they can attempt HTH with a figure on the ground, irrespective of other factors. A combatant with high ST and a good unarmed attack is usually best off initiating HTH if they can, as it neutralizes the armed attack of a smaller foe. Even a small dragon is more or less immune to the HTH attacks of most humanoid foes.

With careful planning, a flyer will often be able to reach a side or rear hex side of a foe on foot and deliver an attack (or enter HTH without risk) on any turn in which the flier moves last. This is because half a flyer's MA is enough to circum-navigate a nearby foe, opening possibilities not available to combatants on foot. This is particularly important when fighting foes armed with pole weapons, which present a significant counter to flyers' combat tactics.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

Here's a question on this topic that I'm not sure I know the answer to. In fact, I can't think of a passage in the rules that directly addresses it.

Consider a 3 hex figure who is engaged by two 1 hex figures. Thus, the larger figure is considered 'engaged' and is subject to all of the relevant restrictions on movement (though he/she/it can still 'push back' at the end of the movement phase). I think the rules imply that the 3 hex figure cannot use a a shift to simultaneously disengage from both figures, but can it use a shift to disengage from one while remaining engaged with the other? The conservative reading of the rules would say 'no', but I feel like an exception might be made because the 3 hex figure is not engaged by any one of the two individuals, only by the combination of the two. And the end result would be more realistic feeling.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

ITL 103: "However, the shift may carry it onto one or more one-hex figures and/or away from one-hex figures with which it was engaged."

Note that it may move away from both figures as per the plural above.

I.e. the warhorse shifts away from both of the two men at arms on foot and then the rider declares standing charge attack response with his lance when these step up to him the next turn.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

Nice! I am not crazy about the interpretation that the shift can move you away from all engaging figures, as that would amount to saying you were never engaged in the first place. But perhaps the intent is that you are only sort of engaged - unable to initiate a multi-hex move, but able to freely shift 1 hex, however you want?

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

Note that the shift-disengage requires control of initiative to force the other side to move first (while they are engaged). If done as a move-first then the other side would just run behind you and use the +4 DX adjustment for the rear hex to strike first.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

Yes, it means you can move one hex away, but not continue moving. It's very different from not being engaged at all, both because of that, and because of what hcobb just wrote above.

Re: shifting while engaged to multiple enemies
 

If on the next turn the knight is forced to move first then he should back up 18 hexes to setup for the next charge.

ST 36 MA 24 Warhorse (ITL 88) is at less than 6x ST while carrying 150 pound knight with 50 pounds or so of gear, which is -6 MA (ITL 130). And so can take a full move of 18 hexes backwards.