[Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes
 

So a little bit a go I was to post a question about how skilled most Mages are because I'd gotten a pair of rules missed up: I thought that the -1 QAD enchanting takes per person present was actually a general penalty that applies to all ceremonial casting, which kind of begs the question on how those ceremonies where hundreds or maybe even thousands of ordinary Joe's are contributing energy, well yeah I think I got this rule from enchanting, anyone disagree? And should I run with it? From a meta-physics stand point it makes a bit more sense, but I'd probably use the Size and Speed/Range table to determine penalty, substituting Yards for people present.

The other error I noticed has to with how fast QAD enchanting happens, I thought it 10 energy per mage per hour, but it's actually a flat 100 energy per hour, looks like I got confused because the examples always talk about the mages only putting in 10 energy each for some weird reason, despite the fact that there would be commercial advantage in being able to contribute more energy. Again, should I run with this?

NB: This took a turn for the strange, I wanted to double check the sources of my confusion and I end up asking if I should keep using the modified rules.

Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes
 

You're correct in that enchantment is not identical to ceremonial magic. In fact, the -1 per assistant rule is not only just for enchantment, it's specific to Q&D enchantment alone, not S&S. (It's also -1 for anyone within 10 yards, assisting or not).

Enchantment also differs from ceremonial magic in that you can enchant alone, whereas you _must_ have assistants for ceremonial magic.

Q&D enchantment allows mages to contribute as much energy as they're able -- there's not a cap per mage, or in total.

For that 100 energy limit, you're probably thinking of the rule for how long the enchantment takes -- the process takes 1 hour per 100 energy required to complete the enchantment. But that's not directly tied to the rate of energy input -- each mage only gets to contribute once, at the end of that 1+ hour period.

In the example with Tubbs and Hawthorne, they're repeating their Powerstone enchantment multiple times in one day, not supplying energy to the same enchantment process multiple times and resting during just one process. Powerstone enchantments stack to increase capacity, a rule detailed in that spell. The example cites 10 FP just as an assumption on the amount of energy they can contribute -- which isn't a bad rule of thumb assuming average stats.

Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes
 

10 is probably a good assumption for SAFE contribution. If you spend FP into the negative (can you even do that voluntarily?) you risk falling unconscious... and if you spend HP then that's going to create skill penalties, and if I recall right, those two were just on the cusp of the 15 skill required to enchant, so spending HP would put them below the threshold?

There is a perk to mitigate the "people are nearby" penalty for enchanting, and also a 'solitary ceremonial' enhancement for magery to allow spells outside the enchantment college to be done using ceremonial magic without people helping.

SC is pretty costly though, it's probably easy to just always have some minion or familiar around so that you can technically fulfill the requirements of not being alone, rather than buy Solitary Ceremonial.

Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes
 

My guess is that they both spent 10 points because Powerstone costs 20 and the best way to recover and start the next process is to spend FP evenly.

If I understand the process correctly, any Enchant up to 100 energy takes 1 hour and you need to spend the required energy at the end of that hour. More than that and you need 1 hour per 100 energy of the enchant (round up) and then the caster and any assistant need to come up with the full amount of energy, which between the penalty for additional members, quickly makes it impossible, which is one of the reasons why you go Slow and (Almost) Sure

Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes
 

I'm wondering about some kind of "I can do 10 energy per 6 minutes instead of 100 per 60" enhancement for Enchantment-Only Magery. I remember this scene in Saga of Tanya the Evil where there's this mage enchanting bullets during a plane flight and it seemed like the speed he was going at was way faster than 1/hour.

Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes
 

I think this raises a question: Is enchanting really ceremonial magic then?

Right about the time, but I should have phrased the version got stuck in my head better, all energy would still be expended at the end, just the way the potential is calculated is changed.

It's not just those examples, it's all the official math we're ever given for how much energy a Mage contributes, that is fixed at them only ever contributing 10 energy.

You can have FP higher then 10, and given that FP is the primary limit on a Mages power and income, it would be surprising if it was limited this way.

Never heard of it.

That not GURPS

Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes
 

Not sure what you mean by this. I'm sure both mages could have more than 10 FP, and they could also have other powerstone available for them.

But here they're casting the Powerstone Enchantment (Magic p, 69) which costs 20 energy. Each mage invests half of the needed energy.

Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes
 

It's not just the 'Tubs and Hawthorne make Powerstones' example that assumes that enchanters only ever put in 10 energy, it's EVERYTHING, most importantly the breakpoint for when you have to switch from Q&D to S&S enchanting, even in DF where it's likely that most enchanters are retired adventures and thus have more then 10 FP, and likely and ER to back that up to boot.

Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes
 

There's no real question that for industrial enchantment using powerstones is economically sensible, it's just something GURPS 4e has chosen to avoid talking about because the math rapidly turns into a mess. You can find some worked out numbers here.

Re: [Magic] Double Checking Some Rules Mistakes
 

It implies mages with many powerstones, and thus large charging halls with powerstones carefully placed just over 6' away from each other. This means working out the rate of return on such an investment, which also means knowing how much the security and the site rental is going to cost, and how it scales with the size of the facility...

As you say, the maths becomes a mess pretty quickly.