Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 

In the Tomb of the Wizard-King liches are described in detail. One of the keys to killing a Lich is to destroy its phylactery. It is easier to destroy the phylactery if you can remove the 'magical armor' that protects it from the 4 hits of damage inflicted.

The Dissolve Enchantment spell is suggested. In the spell description (ITL p 31) it says that the spell cost is 100 ST for a greater magic item and 50 ST for a lesser magic item. So here is the question:

What type of magic item would the phylactery be considered?

Asking for a friend...

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 

Can I extend this to ask what the cost is to use Dissolve Enchantment against Shapeshift, which it is also listed as the 'cure' for, but with no clear ST cost implication?

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 

Liches are very serious business. A lich's phylactery would definitely be a greater magic item but possibly even more powerful than that, if that is possible.

Here are a few thoughts...

Perhaps becoming a lich requires at least one greater wish. In that case, a greater wish might possibly counteract the transformation, unless the transformation "completed" and not "maintained" by the wish. Perhaps it would require both Dissolve Enchantment and a greater wish to "unravel" a lich's phylactery.

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 

On page 2 of the Tomb of the Wizard-King it says:
I don't see the need for a greater wish. Once the armor enchantment is removed with the dissolve enchantment spell, the phylactery can be destroyed like "any normal object."

It may be that the spell needs 100 ST instead of 50. I don't know, which is why I asked.

Chris Rice is the author. Maybe I need to ask him directly.

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 

(I have cast the Summon Christopher Rice spell.)

It's only 4 armor though - you could just keep hammering it.

Open Tunnel only costs 10 ST, too. ;-)

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 

It absolutely is meant to be a greater magic item. As others have noted liches are no joke and that was the intent when I made them for TFT.

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 

Ah, I haven't read Tomb of the Wizard-King. I thought you were talking about using D&D liches in TFT.

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 

4 points of armor thought doesn't seem particularly tough though? I mean, does it heal or anything? A broadsword could kill one in 7 hits on average.

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 

Assuming you've downed the lich, that works as intended. I mean, I'm all for having super phylacteries where it stops double normal hits and/or has extra ST equal to the mana that was in it. Or perhaps having it so that it *heals* 1 hit per second. Or even all three. The point of a lich is to make it tough to kill and it should feel like an accomplishment to do so.

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 

I guess I'm not seeing how this version of phylactery makes the lich hard to take down? I mean, doesn't this version require they wear it on their person and if so... kill the monster, cast 'smash' from your broadsword, profit. It doesn't feel particularly difficult.

If they could hide it, then its a problem.

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 

So having it on them gives them more ST to use for spells - and that's great. But a smart lich is going to hide it somewhere, maybe somewhere that causes continuous damage to those who try to take it, but the phylactery can withstand said damage. Smashing it is going to take longer than normal if it's even found so that gives the lich more time to get to it should it be found.

In the module Kalinore has his on him, but there is no reason why he couldn't hide it or even make it into a magic item in disguise and then fake his own death. Originally, that's what I wanted to do but I had to make the adventure close-ended otherwise I would have just kept writing and that's no good when you're working on a wordcount.

TL;DR they are supposed to be tough enough to take a hit in combat, but not so tough that it's impossible to break them.

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 

I was just thinking of a way to impliment liches in my game in the shower this morning. I was thinking that it would be the use of the Zombie spell or Control Person to create a magical item that the wizard uses to elongate his life and therefore his power, but also to dissolve the limitations of his mind. Possibly becoming one’s own thrall entails liberation from all of one’s deep internal limitations, because they control themselves by direct command only. They become a machine of the Ego, unfettered by the Id and Superego, able to operate completely in line with their most superficial of values. I thought this would be an interesting explanations for their evil, and a unique approach for a phylactery. I have no idea how they’re actually statted for TFT.