Re: Crossbow - Prone or Kneeling Fire
 

We trained that way in the Infantry as well -- and often with fairly heavy weapons (including machine guns) -- and it worked pretty well (though bracing the weapon itself on something always gave a steadier shot.

Re: Crossbow - Prone or Kneeling Fire
 

That doesn't work. You brace to cancel out all the little twitches and vibrations natural to the human body. If you try to use another another person as a brace, it just multiplies the issues. I am aware that, historically, this has been tried. Nobody still attempts it today.

The problem I'm seeing here is that a firearm has relatively smooth sides, so you can clamp it to a vertical surface using your support hand. A crossbow has a great big bow in the horizontal plane, which will get in the way. I wouldn't allow it. To my mind, a crossbow can only be braced on a horizontal surface. I can also say, from considerable experience shooting, that bracing your body doesn't help, and can actually lead to worse aim and increased felt recoil.

Re: Crossbow - Prone or Kneeling Fire
 

I'm not a real-world experts with guns or crossbows, but it stands to reason that a crossbow would give you a lot of headaches you might not have encountered with a rifle. A rifle is a tube whereas a crossbow is a large, dumb robot.

Re: Crossbow - Prone or Kneeling Fire
 

Well, possibly you're right, that's one of those "technicality" arguments that never really gets resolved until someone gets a genuine crossbow and tries it a few hundred times in order to build a statistical basis for resolving it. Until then, if the player gave me a good argument, I'd allow it, but each of us runs things his own way...

(My experience with using various supports in the military was fairly extensive, though. The light infantry (11B) gets fairly creative about those things. Just sayin'... :-) )

Re: Crossbow - Prone or Kneeling Fire
 

It's not about statistical analysis. It's about trying to fit two objects into the same space at the same time. The bow and string on a cocked crossbow extend some distance to either side, and nearly the full length, of the weapon. You're just not going to be able to push it against a vertical surface to brace it. You have to lay it on something.

Re: Crossbow - Prone or Kneeling Fire
 

I'm thinking you're possibly not considering the full possibilities of bracing though. Perhaps leaning back or sideways against the tree would provide some extra stability (we're not addressing cover and concealment here, only bracing). All I'm saying is that my mind isn't locked in stone on this, and if a valid argument were made to me, I'd consider it.

Re: Crossbow - Prone or Kneeling Fire
 

I'm beginning to think we need someone who actually owns a crossbow here. :D

Re: Crossbow - Prone or Kneeling Fire
 

I do actually own a crossbow, which is how I've shot one. (It is a modern design, which probably qualifies as a "Light Crossbow" because it only has an 80 lb. draw weight.)

And you are right, ColBosch: when the bow is cocked (drawn), the bow and strings form a big triangle / pie slice, and there is no way you could brace the crossbow itself against anything to its side (or from any direction except underneath).

But as I suggested before, you can nevertheless gain some stability by leaning yourself against anything solid. Not a lot, maybe, but some. I would say the gain is comparable to the difference between standing and kneeling (or sitting, for that matter).

Re: Crossbow - Prone or Kneeling Fire
 

Can you apply Waiting for an Opening(ITL 127) while remaining concealed at the -6 level of Concealment (ITL 122) behind that tree?

And does Concealment stack with your cheap no-fatigue Blur ring to a -10?

Re: Crossbow - Prone or Kneeling Fire
 

Might I suggest a compromise. +2 DX for bracing with a support under the crossbow and +1 for bracing against a vertical surface, using the crossbow or the firer's body in contact the bracing surface.