Am I reading this wrong
 

ITL LE says, on pg 123, "A person who has the Master Armourer talent can make a sword, polearm, hammer, mace, or ax (but no other weapon) so well that it does extra damage, or effectively increases its user’s DX, or both. A dagger may do extra damage, but not increase DX. This is not magic – just very good craftsmanship. A weapon could have bonuses both for being well-made and for magic, if it was made carefully and then enchanted. Good workmanship can give a weapon such good balance that its user gets +1 DX (never more than +1). A cutting weapon can also be made of such good metal that it does either 1 or 2 extra hits of damage."

It seems to say, to me at least, that a hammer or mace can be made so well that it can have a bonus for DX and Damage, but the last sentence says that cutting weapons are the only ones that can get a damage bonus. A hammer or mace do not seem to fit. Which one is it?

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

I've read it as:

Dagger: +damage only
Hammer/Mace: +DX only
Cutting weapons: Both

Javelins: ?

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

"...does extra damage, or effectively increases its user’s DX, or both."

Emphasis mine.

I think that the wording implies a dependency on the item being crafted. It could have been clearer, but I read it as saying that a hammer or mace can only ever be crafted to +1 DX.

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

Another interpretation that fits is that hammers, etc, can get a +1 to damage (the first clause of the first sentence is true; +1 is "extra damage"), but not +2 (so the last sentence is also true -- only cutting weapons can get to +2, but cutting weapons can also be made as +1).

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

"A cutting weapon can also be made of such good metal that it does either 1 or 2 extra hits of damage."

This sentence strongly implies that only cutting weapons can receive a bonus to damage. A hammer or mace is not a cutting weapon.

I wouldn't give javelins a bonus to damage as they are strictly piercing and not cutting weapons. YMMV.

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

Exactly so.

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

The passage is repetitive and confusing, but I would say the opening sentence states the general case and the bit about the dagger gives the one exception, and you should ignore the last passage (which reads like something that was pasted in from a different place or retained from an earlier edition).

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

Here is my take on that passage.

Polearm, hammer, mace, ax: +1 DX and/or +1 damage.

Dagger: +1 damage only.

Weapons can gain additional enhancements through enchantments.

Swords: +1 DX and /or up to +2 damage.

Note: "A cutting weapon... made of such good metal" also implies to me that axes, halberds, and pike axes could be made with +2 damage enhancement.

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

I'd go with this interpretation as well. Makes sense that edged weapons can get a further point of damage, if made to be especially keen or serrated or such.

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

So daggers, javelins and maces get sharp spikes for +1 damage while halberds, axes, and swords get sharp edged for +2 damage?

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

That seems reasonable. Quality of craftsmanship should not make as much difference for a weapon that is functionally "blunt" as it should for something that cuts.

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

Why not Dagger +2 damage?

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

Daggers should get up to +2.

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

When I look over it again, there's no reason not to give a fine dagger +2 damage.

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

Goblin hero
ST 6 DX 15 IQ 11
2xVery fine Daggers(1d+1+1) ($200 each)
Knife(1), Weapon Expertise-Dagger(3)

Makes two attacks per turn, one at adjDX10 for 2d+2 and another at adjDX11 for 1d+2, correct?

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

You forgot Two Weapons talent. But yes that checks out. Of course at ST 6 with no armor, he is one stray arrow or attack away from dead.
NOTE TO SELF: avoid the goblins in hcobb's world.
:-)

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

The goblin does not need Two Weapons talent to make a second attack with a dagger at -4DX. Anyone can do it, as per ITL 111.

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

Hello Shostak,
Sorry to disagree with you.

From pg 111 regarding Two Weapons talent:
"A person who does not have this talent may attempt the same feat, but his DX will be -6 for each attack"

From under the Two Weapons talent on pg 41:
"(a) attack with both weapons, at normal DX for the first attack and -4 for the second one."

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

And just before that: "If you take an attack option, you can also make a separate dagger attack against the same enemy. It is rolled at -4 DX"

And at ITL41 "Any character can fight with two weapons at once – if one of the weapons is a dagger, main-gauche, or spike shield, or if some combination like net-and-trident or two cesti is being used. However, a character who wants to fight with two swords, sword and mace, or other such combination must have this talent"

So Two Weapons is of very limited use on top of Weapon Expertise-Dagger.

BTW: When is the last time you pickpocketed a very fine silver dagger your character saw openly displayed on a belt in public? (It's a $2k value just for the base item before you add in the value of the Staff V enchantment!) But that would bring up the issue of handiness for the standard silver dagger-staff and brand. Is the dagger-staff in the dominate or off-hand WRT to-hit rolls? A sinister question about dexterity. (If you have a DX 9 sorceress then your to-hit with the off-hand dagger-staff is better if you don't have Knife talent of course. The only pity is that the three magical attacks per turn with no weapons talents all have to be made against the same target.)

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

* The last time someone pickpocketed a dagger that was a staff, they died from the 3d damage staff effect.

* The Staff V enchantment is only valuable to the person who cast the staff spell, and it makes the item a positive hazard to anyone else, so it has at most zero market value and at worst it's makes it deadly and suspicious as stolen goods.

* What is "the standard dagger-staff and brand"?

* Presumably if someone has a silver dagger staff and a brand (magic torch), they'd use their dominaNT hand for the weapon not the light source / fire-starter, no?

* If I had a DX 9 figure with a dagger in their off hand, and they had the knife talent, I would think they would attack at adjDX 5 with it. If they did not have the knife talent and tried a left-hand 1-hex-range (not HTH) attack with it, I would think they would attack at either adjDX 1 (old TFT rules), or at adjDX 5 but need to roll 4d6 to hit (new rules). So what's the advantage of not having the knife talent or of trying to use it in the off hand?

* What three magical attacks? A magical club brand for club or torch damage at DX, and a magical but otherwise normal dagger attack at adjDX -4, and an arcane staff V attack?

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

Four die rolls have higher chance of critical hits and failure than three die rolls so when adjDX is five or less and you are immune to critical failure it is better to roll more dice.

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

I'm kind of surprised that no one called out the obvious blunder, you can forge a fine throwing ax to be +1 to hit, because it's more balanced? But you can't fabricate an equally balanced throwing blade?

Re: Am I reading this wrong
 

One might reason that it's not very hard to balance a throwing knife (so there's no such thing as a "super-balanced" throwing knife that's materially more accurate, and that instead, knives/daggers not balanced for throwing might be at an extra penalty to throw them, instead.

If you wanted to allow finely-balanced throwing knives, maybe house-rule that a DX bonus on a knife only applies to throwing (and perhaps that the minimum penalty to throw it is -1 anyway, since balance probably doesn't matter at 1-hex range).