Steve Jackson Games Forums - Cestus does (1d-1) as a melee strike

Quote:

Originally Posted by warhorse11h (Post 2234078)

There is nothing in the rules that I have read that supports this, but, I read the brawling talent description prior to writing my last post. The +2 damage is for dirty fighting which changes the character of the fight from "friendly" to a real fight. It doesn't say it in the rules, but that +2 damage feels transitory to me, you only get it once, and after that your opponents are really trying to hurt you and are on their guard.
The feel of the brawling talent seems to be an attempt to incorporate the "John Wayne" bar fight into ITL. As such, as long as the fight stays, "friendly", I would be tempted, as the GM, to rule any damage done in it as fatigue damage, fighting to knock down or knock out an opponent, not to actually hurt him. Use of a cestus in such circumstances would be "dirty fighting" and would turn it into a real fight, with the intent to do grave bodily harm to each other.

Yes. I like your one-turn surprise suggestion.

"Friendly" brawling is restrained fighting, and skilled brawling should be less lethal than even non-skilled people trying to actually kill each other with their bare hands.

It seems like the details of the Taking Prisoners rule (ITL 126, which itself mentions non-lethal brawls) was forgotten when writing the Brawling talent description, and that the Brawling talent description should mention that non-lethal fights should use those rules:

* Damage per attack is at 1/2 (round down).
* Damage won't reduce ST below 0 except on double/triple damage results.
* Double/triple damage results to full lethal 2x/3x damage.

Confusingly though:
* A bare hand attack can be done for full damage but with the non-lethal-except-on-double-or-triple option.

I say confusing because what then exactly should be used for fist attacks in a brawl? I think brawling fist attacks should be halved, or else using weapons such as clubs would actually do less damage than using fists, which would make no sense. So while you can punch for non-lethal full damage, it's escalating to serious combat, not "friendly" brawling.

In that context, the +1 and +2 damage for Brawling seem fine, but I think the +2 outside of brawling seems too much compared to weapons such as clubs, daggers and cestus at +3 (especially if some people think a cestus should only do 1d-1 outside HTH, since ST 11 +2 for a brawling punch would be 1d+0!).

My main difficulty interpreting the Brawling rules is that it seems to me like it did not have the 1/2 damage in mind, as it suggests using Dirty Brawling would escalate to others using Dirty Brawling and weapons, but doesn't mention the more important level of escalation which is whether people are doing 1/2 damage or not.

So far, I think what I would do is:

Friendly brawl: +1 damage for Brawling talent (all damage halved, round down)

Dirty brawl: +2 damage for Brawling talent (all damage halved, round down)

Serious combat: +1 damage for Brawling talent (damage not halved)

Non-lethal Cestus combat: +3 punch damage, halved, round down

Lethal Cestus combat: +3 punch damage

Punching someone with mail/plate gauntlets without Brawling or the Cestus talent: +1 damage, an additional +1 if you do have the Brawling or Cestus talent