Re: Combatives martial arts styles
 

Here is one I expect that at least some posters here know from personal experience. How ‘bout some comments?

MCMAP Cost: 11*/-

Primary skills: Brawling, Judo, Spear
Secondary skills: Knife, Karate
Optional skills: Axe/Mace, Short sword, Staff, Tonfa
Manoeuvres: Arm Lock, Breakfall, Disarming, Close-combat (Knife or Spear), Elbow Strike, Hit Location (Brawling or Spear), Knee Strike, Retain Weapon (Rifle)

*If we assume 1/2 point levels for most average manuevers.

Re: Combatives martial arts styles
 

Add Breakfall, and Knee Strike to the Maneuvers. I'm not sure about Retain Weapon unless it's a Black Belt technique.

Do you really think MCMAP strikes and kicks are Brawling? I'd go for for Karate myself.

Hit Location in 4e needs to specifiy both an attack and a location ie. Knee Strike(Groin) or Bayonet Thrust (Vitals).

Re: Combatives martial arts styles
 

From what I understand, MCMAP strikes are meant to flow naturally from what students already know and be learned quickly and with a minimum of effort. That, in my opinion, implies Brawling. Karate is a part of the training, certainly, and those kicks that are taught would without a doubt fall under that.

Keep in mind, however, that this is in 3e terms, where it was often better to have a high level of Brawling skill and then just Karate at level 15 to add to damage.

I wondered about Knee Strike and mostly left it out to avoid having all the combatives styles look alike. I will add it.

Breakfall? Basic Judo skill is assumed to include training in that and only those styles that emphasise it heavily have it written as a seperate manuever in MA 3e. Are you sure?

Retain Weapon (Rifle), I would consider very likely as a part of bayonet training. Retain Weapon (Pistol) was included to represent CQB training. If you think it is unwarranted, I'll drop it.

And as for Hit Location, this is the 3e version of MCMAP. SJGames will include the style in 4e terms in the new Martial Arts book.

Re: Combatives martial arts styles
 

Yeah, after all those Knee Drills I think it's certainly justified.
I've practiced breakfalls in MCMAP almost as much as I did in aikido.
We did a little Retain Weapon (Rifle) at Tan Belt (basically one move), Gray Belt doesn't have any emphasis on bayonet combat really (that I know of). I'm not sure about pistol stuff. I'm only a Tan Belt, and have some Gray Belt training, myself.

Re: Combatives martial arts styles
 

I'm just worried about the excessive cost of the style. It's reaching a similar cost level as the more complex Sport/Art styles and that goes counter to the purpose of it.

I'll add it if you insist. Sigh... ;)

I´ll admit that the focus on bayonet training is influenced partly by the older LINE system and I sort of assumed that it would hold true today as well.

Pistol stuff duly dropped.

Re: Combatives martial arts styles
 

I'm hardly insisting, I suspect the problem is with the way 3e did styles. Also remember, I'm not an expert, I am a holder of the lowest belt in the Program.

Re: Combatives martial arts styles
 

Which makes you a bigger expert than I am. ;)

Re: Combatives martial arts styles
 

Sorry, I missed the thread. There is a nice article in Pyramid: Do You Tap?. For a more orthodox take here is my contribution for 3e (note the spelling, and the point cost):


Old Style Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu 10 points.

Primary skills: Wrestling, Brawling.
Secondary skills: Judo.
Optional skills: Intimidation.
Maneuvers: Arm lock, Choke Hold, Ground Fighting (Brawling), Ground Fighting (Wrestling) [2], Head Butt, Head Lock, Leg Grapple.

This is the classic old style BJJ, as it was thought and fought in Rio's streets back in the old days. The emphasis is on achieving a superior position on the ground and striking the opponent, with punches, elbows and head butts. It's similar to today mixed martial arts styles, but more rough. There is some interesting footage in Gracie in Action tapes.


Sport Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu 10 points.

Primary skills: Judo Sport.
Secondary skills: Wrestling Sport, Tournament Law (BJJ).
Optional skills: Brawling.
Maneuvers: Arm lock [2], Breakfall, Choke Hold [2], Ground Fighting (Judo) [2], Head Lock, Wrist Lock

The split between vale tudo and sport oriented practitioners became serious in 70s when competitions got increasingly common. Later Carlson Jr. was very active in developing the system and new rules. This style is usually thought in modern academies, it rely heavily on guard work and submissions.


Submission Wrestling 8 points.

Primary skills: Wrestling Sport.
Secondary skills: Judo Sport, Tournament Law (SW).
Optional skills: Brawling.
Maneuvers: Arm lock [2], Choke Hold, Ground Fighting (Wrestling) [2] Head Lock, Wrist Lock.

Basically BJJ without the gi. Less grip means less technique, and in turn greater importance of strength and mass, less throws and more takedowns. Chokes are limited too, at least compared to BJJ and Judo.

Re: Combatives martial arts styles
 

Luther, this is great.

All that is missing is BJJ as a combative (stripped of all sporting elements and only focusing on hurting the opponent). I know that the US Special Forces and other special operation forces learn this and would be interested in seeing how you would stat a purely functional style based on BJJ.

Wrestling is inferior to Judo in 3e rules, is it not? There is no reason ever to have both, is there?

Re: Combatives martial arts styles
 

You should require them to pay for this, unless the intention is that they cannot do normal parries but still do APs at the normal default.