Steve Jackson Games Forums - Adding Affects magic to DR

Steve Jackson Games Forums (https://forums.sjgames.com/index.php)

- GURPS (https://forums.sjgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)

- - Adding Affects magic to DR (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=160817)

Adding Affects magic to DR

So... I have a Character with a bunch of DR (10 levels*)... and after some thread diving have come to the decision that DR (Magic Only, -20%) would be pretty sweat to add into the mix.

However, would it be safe to just start buying up my DR (Tough Skin) with some sort of 'Affects Magic, +XX%'?

I'm eyeballing +20%, but I'm not sure if that's an adequate coverage.

* In DF, DR 10 is pretty damn impressive.

Re: Adding Affects magic to DR

DR is normally effective against magic, unless the magic explicitly bypasses DR, and any magic that explicitly bypasses DR will also bypass DR (Magic Only). If you want your DR to be effective against deathtouch, dehydrate, and frostbite, you'll need two +50% cosmic enhancements (one to apply against attacks that are Cosmic (Ignore DR), one to apply against Malediction).

Re: Adding Affects magic to DR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2224656)

DR is normally effective against magic, unless the magic explicitly bypasses DR...

Yes, I already know that.

Quote:

...and any magic that explicitly bypasses DR will also bypass DR (Magic Only).

That is explicitly (via Krommquote) false:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm (Post 271451)

Yeah, ice spells inflict 100% of their damage through physical trauma, bashing the target with big ice balls, spearing him with icicles, or shredding him with tiny ice crystals. Cold spells might damage through freezing, but there are very few spells like that . . . off hand, Frostbite.

As for DR vs. spells that bypass armor, I would say that specific countermeasures always trump general statements. DR (Limited, Magic, -20%) very specifically does work against any magical damage, including Deathtouch.

Bolding mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2224656)

If you want your DR to be effective against deathtouch, dehydrate, and frostbite, you'll need two +50% cosmic enhancements (one to apply against attacks that are Cosmic (Ignore DR), one to apply against Malediction).

There are no spells that ignore "DR" (Deathtouch ignores armor)* and there are none labeled as "maledictions" (though you can certainly treat them that way).

* Though Magical Bolt from DF Power-Ups ignores DR. But it's built very specifically and would ignore DR (Magic Only, -20%) anyway.

Re: Adding Affects magic to DR

Quote:

Originally Posted by evileeyore (Post 2224672)

That is explicitly (via Krommquote) false:

Bolding mine.

Ugh. Limitations that make abilities more effective are bad game design, though it wouldn't be the first time GURPS has done that. In any case, I would say in this case that affects magic is +80%.

Re: Adding Affects magic to DR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2224679)

Ugh. Limitations that make abilities more effective are bad game design, though it wouldn't be the first time GURPS has done that. In any case, I would say in this case that affects magic is +80%.

If not for that post, I would've thought the way to do it would be via Limited Enhancements. "Cosmic: Defensive" (cosmic: irresistible can't bypass) normally +50% -20% (10% is 1/5 of 50%) = +40%.

This makes me wonder if the same applies for other forms of "limited". Would that mean that Crushing Attack (Irresistible Attack +300%) is stopped by DR (Crushing Only) without it needing to be Cosmic: Defensive or Hardened?

Re: Adding Affects magic to DR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2224679)

Ugh. Limitations that make abilities more effective are bad game design, though it wouldn't be the first time GURPS has done that. In any case, I would say in this case that affects magic is +80%.

The Limitation isn't making the DR better... it's the 'Limitation' on the power that's making it worse, in this case Magical spells being Magic and thus susceptible to the means of negating or reducing the effects of Magical spells.

So, by limiting the DR to Magic Only you're both increasing it's usefulness (can now affect magic) while simultaneously curtailing it's usefulness (cannot affect anything else).

I agree that it should probably have been written as DR (Can Affect Magic, +XX%; Limited Magic Only, -(20+XX)%) so you can have some DR that only affects Magical attacks that DR normally interacts with.

But that's not the GURPS we have.

(Noting of course that as I just discovered elsewhere, Psionic Powers does require Malediction-Proof +50% for DR to able to interact with Malediction Psi powers - which is how I might rule in my games in the future. Maybe.)

Side thoughts:

Quote:

Originally Posted by evileeyore (Post 2224672)

There are no spells that ignore "DR" (Deathtouch ignores armor)* and there are none labeled as "maledictions" (though you can certainly treat them that way).

This means that the character is already 'protected' from Deathtouch as her DR is all Tough Skin, no armor. So....

Yeah, I'm going to keep pursuing this (for hypothetical builds, and Dehydrate and Frostbite which are of vastly lesser relevance - the Character has really good HT and Resistant to Metabolic Hazards making those spells futile against her), but it's looking like this train of thought is moot for actual play.