Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

Start Goblins with ST 6, DX 10, IQ 10 and six extra points.

This way the players are denied hyperintelligent starting wizard PCs.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

I think I'd rather fix the problem with high starting IQ being a problem. Or just disallow starting at IQ > 16, if that's an inescapably bad thing.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

I actually like the twist on stereotype... so much so that I made 'smart' goblins one of the big bads in my homebrew D&D setting I created after HS. They commanded legions of hobgoblins and were among some of the most powerful mages in the world. I had forgotten where I originally got that idea, but it probably came from TFT.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

Note that even with this change Goblins still do better at GMIC-ary than humans, but it isn't a first month on the job sort of thing.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

Isn't this largely self-correcting? A starting goblin wizard with ST 6, DX 8, and IQ 18 is going to be challenging to keep alive.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

This seems to have more to do with ST not mattering for crafting than with goblins per se.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

A group of starting players summon up a few demons to plus up their attributes. If they fail then just start over.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

Hmmm. OK. Is this sort of like the old experience from jobs thing? Under this process it seems you might as well just give the players 34, 35, 36 or whatever arbitrary level of CP to begin with.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

Make 'Goblin Made' great again!

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

A nation led by goblins was one of the main conquerors in my original TFT campaign (where goblins start at the traditional ST 6 DX 8 IQ 10 + 6 extra) by being the upper castes in a society that also has many hobgoblins and orcs and human, and by being generally not stupid, and taking advantage of their trustworthiness.

I welcome PCs starting goblins as 32 points, but don't like the side-effect of 500 XP as the only way to learn a spell or talent, so that's where I'd house-rule a fix.


It would tend to, if you give out XP awards for combat and not for sitting through a session and roleplaying non-dangerous situations.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

Super zappy staff at DX+3, 1d+2 that ignores armor and is used while defending anybody?

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

I'd just nerf the staff instead of messing around with the goblin stats.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

The point being that if you don't start with IQ 18 then you need to find somebody to teach you all those high level IQ roll only spells.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

And you get to not pay 500 XP per talent/spell point you start with (plus another 500 XP for each level of Staff spell you don't have to upgrade to).

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

Or you just go with my plan. ;)

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

As a general rule, I'd limit starting DX and IQ to 14 or less for all characters.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

Another thing that would help would be to change the resting rules to:

A figure regains a third of their base ST in fatigue for each hour's rest. So a ST 6 figure only regains a point of fatigue every 30 minutes.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

I don't see a compelling reason to impose limits other than those already implied by the character generation rules. The telling observation is how rarely people choose to make super extreme PC's. Anyone who has a crazy high value in one stat has two other equally important stats that are terrible. Plus the benefit to you of a high stat diminishes sharply above 14 or 15. Anyway, I have yet to see a player show up at the table with a super weird 'build'.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

Consider my starting limits an insurance policy. You don't have to buy it but I will.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

Best way to kill the hyperintellgent wizard is with an illusion of a gargoyle that engages her in HTH before she has a chance to disbelieve.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

The benefit keeps going if the stat is IQ and you're a wizard, but it does make you probably not a good arena wizard, unless you team up with (or recruit) others including someone who will cast Aid on you.

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

What is the market price for a bound greater wish?

My partial sim (with no pentagrams) says

IQ 17 wizards got an average of 8.0673 wishes

IQ 18 wizards got an average of 9.8662 wishes

IQ 19 wizards got an average of 11.3545 wishes

IQ 20 wizards got an average of 12.0312 wishes

IQ 21 wizards got an average of 12.6351 wishes

IQ 22 wizards got an average of 12.8179 wishes

IQ 23 wizards got an average of 13.0385 wishes

IQ 24 wizards got an average of 12.8281 wishes

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

The odds depend on how you resolve the contest of IQ, and whether you allow automatic success/failure to happen. (To discuss Greater Wish abuse, maybe we should put it in its own thread? If the GM/rules let people make Wishing for attributes a normal thing, then that undermines all topics, not just Goblins, though I guess Goblins could jump - start it by taking extra high IQ to start with).

Re: Fixing the Goblin loophole
 

Adding to my house rules that no starting character knows any spells above IQ 14. No matter how smart they are they just haven't had time for that kind of training. If you want a higher level spell then find a book and spend the 500 XP in study.