Flintlock guns
 

I'm polishing up a variety of TFT materials into supplements I will eventually submit for publication through W23 (or some other means of distribution), and one of those will be equipment, including weapons. None of this is really necessary, as the published game has a lot of gear in it already. But, sometimes its jolly to have official lists of things that can be colorful features of a particular setting; so, I suspect others will enjoy it.

The important thing is that any new equipment (particularly things used in combat) fit neatly into the range of capabilities of the 'canon' weapons and armor, and conform to the trade-space of benefits, prerequisites and drawbacks. This is pretty easy to do with most melee weapons and bows, but you have to be careful with gunpowder weapons. Everything from a jug full of black powder a colt .45 is presented in the core book, but the most sophisticated thing it is assumed a PC can just buy is the arquebus — a matchlock gun that packs a lot of punch but is slow and awkward to use. You could conclude that the intention is for the maximum 'tech level' found outside of rare artifacts corresponds to the 16th century.

Flintlock guns are a tricky case: They arise from technological innovations that I would say are within the scope of what a master Mechanician could probably do. And there are plenty of 'setting enrichment' reasons to have them exist in Cidri (this is the sort of gun classic pirates and musketeers would use). But they are also a more powerful technology for personal combat, as they can be transported loaded without the awkwardness of a burning match and then readied and fired pretty quickly. And, they aren't like auto-death machines, but realistically they should pack a punch proportional to other black powder guns.

My feeling is that they add to the game and can be well controlled simply by making them expensive and difficult to track down, and giving them damage attributes that are broadly in line with what can already be achieved by crossbows and other weapons that are part of the core system. But you could argue they cross some sort of line that shouldn't be crossed regarding Cidri's default tech level. What do you think?

Re: Flintlock guns
 

Guns weren't popular my campaigns because pretty much everyone loves fantasy weapons and magic. And a world with lightning spells and such would have less utility value for guns than ours (though they would probably be one of the great equalisers for the non-mage against a mage).

Some things that limited the proliferation of guns in my campaign world (besides the lack of interest in them from players) is that they were unreliable, uncommon, and carried a stigma about them - they are a way for the weak, stupid, and cowardly to feel powerful, and are derided for that. Many towns had prohibitions about trafficking in them too, as they were basically reserved solely for the perimeter guards, and were seen as potential tools for assassination in the hands of common folk. Ultimately at the end of the day it was just too costly (in many ways) for guns to be popular, so they only made appearances as odd weapons or city defenses.

Anyway, to circle back to your original inquiry, there's nothing wrong with making a range of options available to GMs. Supplementary material is just that, and each GM will use as much or as little as fits into their game world. One thing to keep in mind is that, on Cidri at least, gunpowder doesn't work quite as it does on Earth (as detailed in the original Advanced Melee). So any guns are likely to be seldom encountered, whatever technology level they operate at. If some version suddenly makes gunpowder as reliable on Cidri as it is on Earth, that would probably spell the end for melee weapons, with every conflict boiling down to guns vs magic. I keep this from happening by allowing defensive magic to be very effective against guns (as compared to swords and such), and by requiring dragon dung as one of the ingredients for gunpowder (as per a comment in the original ITL).

Re: Flintlock guns
 

I always impose all the canonical constraints on guns: high cost of gunpowder, slow rate to ready an arquebus, high misfire rate, and danger of explosion. My players love them anyway, as they are fun, pack a punch, and have no ST requirement.

Re: Flintlock guns
 

That's fine. As long as they remain interesting but not unbalancing, I don't have a problem with them in the game world. I just personally wouldn't introduce any modifications or versions that make them more reliable or commonplace, unless I was going for a Gunslingers versus Spellslingers campaign world (like a kind of magical Wild West setting).

Re: Flintlock guns
 

As a historical note, Matchlock and Wheellock guns (in that order) came around before Flintlocks (which were quite a technological advance) did. You might want to consider taking a look at them first. Their rate of failure was considerably higher than Flintlocks, which would be a good way to ensure that your campaign doesn't simply become an arms race in gunpowder based weapons.

Re: Flintlock guns
 

I guess another factor is that there is an inherent risk in carrying around anything gunpowder-based in a world where some wizard can call up fire around you in a snap. Bad enough to be set ablaze without having your ordinance adding to the mayhem.

Re: Flintlock guns
 

Good point!

Re: Flintlock guns
 

c.f. the original quote.

Re: Flintlock guns
 

I'm looking forward to your work. I am also writing something, likely just to distribute free as a tribute to the game I loved as a kid. It's a sword and planetish piece based on the milieu my friends and I made in the early 80's.

The ruling city-state in this setting retains a higher level of technology and has a limited number of slugthrowers for its police force. These are equivalent to single shot shotguns. I am really struggling with how to stat them. They are supposed to be overpowered, but I am not sure how overpowered they should be...I've wondered if they should either ignore armor/reduce the effectiveness of armor or just go for higher damage. Or both.

Plus I've always wanted to run a Carribean campaign where I mixed up a bunch of pirates, voodoo sorcerers and Conquistadors. I think your guns might get me closer to that mini-campaign!

Re: Flintlock guns
 

Hell Yea.
I game with 'lead' figures. There are many of my figures holding arquebuses, flintlocks, pistols and blunderbusses. I want and need stats for them. Some even have ancient looking bazookas, and even small cannons.

When I've got Wizards toting Flamethrower Staffs, Dwarven Plated Great axers and HyperDex Longbowmen, a shopkeeper with a pistol or a goblin troop with flintlocks seems fine with me.

None of the players I've GMd had any problems with having guns in the game. And I never bothered with the microbe/Gunpowder theory. I never implemented it. I figured the Mechanician's guild got with the chemist to figure out how to sanitize those little beasties.

But then again, I played with 40+ point figures to compensate for the plate and talents. Now I will be able to lower those attributes down some.

Re: Flintlock guns
 

Cool; well, ask and ye shall receive. My house rule tables include flintlocks from little boot pistols, belt pistols and horse pistols to musketoons and muskets, and a crude 'hand gunne' that has to be set up by a couple of people but fires a fist sized stone that will mess you up. They don't really change game play in any way I've noticed, but a lot of my players love them!

Re: Flintlock guns - TFT High Tech splatbook
 

What I would like is a TFT Splatbook article on Guns similar to a stripped down version of GURPS High-Tech and made available in Warehouse 23.

Yes, I understand many would feel that to delve into GUNS for TFT is sacrilege as the game is about Fantasy Combat and guns distort that style. The splatbook article I request would not be for them. However, this is for TFT so the article should be more conservative towards its use of Guns.

The article I’m looking for would have Tech Levels so you could match the type of gun to the level your scenario is playing at that moment. Technology is in the TFT genes as part of the background story of Cidri and the Mnoren.

There would be a list of all the gun-type weapons and their TFT Stats: Hand Weapons, artillery pieces, explosives, flammables, misc. Gun related items. Stats would also include distance it could reasonably hit something in feet/yards and perhaps hexes, what does a critical failure actually mean, etc. It would just list the generic type of gun (like "revolver", not "Smith and Wesson 38 special")

This is not GURPS, so there will be no gritty details of how the item works in the real world. It would have maybe a sentence or two about how the weapons were used, the loading, risks of usage, etc.

It would cover the use of guns by an individual, by a small group and by an army platoon, by racial preferences… all from a TFT prospective.

It might have a discussion on gun tactics in a Magic World, commando gun teams, artillery use, along with how Aiming, Waiting for an Opening, Crippling hits, Long-Distance Duels apply to gun usage.

It would have maybe a half-page about Gunpowder in a sulfur-metabolizing microorganism environment; the whys, costs and how gunpowder is kept in the current TFT. It would have a talk about how gunpowder & gunpowder weapons would be if there was only limited sulfur-metabolizing microorganisms and its ramifications on Cidri.

It would cover the sources & manufacture of gunpowder on Cidri; even those not from Dragon Dung. How about Dragonet Dung? Dragonet is a true dragon in miniature (new ITL p92). Its dung should be useful too and not as difficult to get. That might even bring the price down. Maybe the Mechanician's Guild got together with the chemist's guild to work on a way to eradicate those sulfer-metabolizing microorganisms (as discovered by scholars in a back issue of Scientific Cidririan.)

Also, it would have various ways these guns would be manufactured on Cidri. Single mechanician working in his back room; Small cottage industry of mom & pops; King's armory; Mechanician Guild franchise; imported via Gates from other worlds...

Ways to reduce Guns - Dragons are a source of Antipathy towards guns. So is the Wizards Guild. But there could be others that hold antipathy that might hold sway and restrict its use even if it weren’t expensive to get. Religions, Nobles, Armorer’s Guilds, Elves might put social pressure for gunpowder to be outlawed, repressed or ridiculed. The use of guns in the army might be too new-fangled or unmanly, just too expensive or not needed because we have magic.

Ways to promote Guns - It might cover those groups which would support Gunpowder. The Mechanician’s Guild would absolutely support it. Dwarves would probably support it because it would aid in mining. Some navies might support it if they knew off-Cidri use of naval guns.

There would be rules for the affect of gunshots producing smoke in the days before smokeless powder. The sound of a gunshot and how far in hexes it could be heard. The affect of artillery shell on a wall or roof and how to represent this in game terms.

There might be a few new Talents for this subject. A few new weapons. Even perhaps guns using magic enhancements.

I really liked having Tech Levels as described in GURPS High-Tech. This included travel, communications, medicine and other advance from EARTH history.
Deciding a games or environments Tech Level would help a GM decide what goes in or stays out of a scenario. So grouping guns by their technological level would help in this.

The writer should read and compare the various TFT gun data already developed. Those printed in Interplay, Space Gamer and other articles published. Also the https://tft.brainiac.com/archive/index.html, and the links of sites noted. There is a wealth of data that TFT Fans have hashed out and brought up over the years.

And lastly, these rules and stats should be play tested before they are submitted for W23.

Re: Flintlock guns
 

It is fairly common to forget how complicated older technology is. While a blacksmith could make a decent sword (although you would still want to go to a specialist for a high quality sword) in a world where they are not common, it take a team to make a musket. First you need a metal crafter to make and assemble the several individual metal components. Because mass production techniques do not exist each one would need to be individually fitted together and not interchangeable with other muskets. Next you need a wood carver to make your frame and again while they look similar all the components need to individually fitted together.


Now you have a musket but no powder. You are going to need to find an alchemist to make your gunpowder. Musket balls and shot would be easier to obtain but again need to be made for your caliber weapon. The accessories such as a powder horn, bag or box to keep your shot, ramrod, cleaning materials and maybe carrying bag would need specialists in other fields such as leatherwork.


Overall a musket is expensive to get and maintain in a world that does not have them in regular use.

Re: Flintlock guns
 

When I see combat with modern (Late C19+) firearms in a movie or whatever, it tends to have a paradigm very different to that of canon TFT. Characters duck down behind cover, occasionally poking their head out to snap off a shot then pulling it back. If you want to move, you request covering fire. If someone has the drop on you you make no sudden motions.

I think if a modern RPG with firearm combat wants to emulate movies &c like this, then a modern firearms combat game needs to handle these sorts of paradigms. TFT would need some serious modification.

Re: Flintlock guns
 

This is exactly my feeling as well. Fighting with accurate deadly ranged weapons is about what you do to not get shot. Most of those things aren't really in TFT, and seem challenging to add. If you just add the weapons, you mainly get people either moving like pre-gunpowder people standing around getting shot, or you have them wanting to do various gun-combat-related tactics (overwatch, peeking around cover, pop-up attacks, suppression, moves on a smaller than 5-second scale, etc) and not having rules for how to do and represent the details of those things, nor the effects you might want.

Re: Flintlock guns
 

I think you might be able to get away with a minimal modification- add "overwatch" as an action so that a character gets a chance to get a shot off against someone running around a corner in the next turn. Things like cover and bracing weapons and different stances are already in the rules, although often mentioned in passing. The main issue that comes to mind is that moving while crouched and transitioning between stances is probably a little less fluid than it should be.

Come to think of it, this should probably be able to overwatch in the rules as is. If I'm DX 12 with a crossbow sitting in a corner of a room watching a door and a DX 13 orc comes through through the door to shoot me, let alone stab me, I should probably be able to shoot first. GM would probably want to roleplay whether or not two figures can see each other and the effect of seeing something while moving, perhaps giving a -DX modifier to acting, although to a degree with proper 'blind movement' this would be mitigated as the DX 13 orc only gets a chance to shoot if he was going 1 hex at a time and manages to pick the right facing as he moves... hm... a lot to think about, and frustratingly so given that I haven't even done my "Chain Reaction/Tomorrow's War" reactive combat modification to Classic Traveller yet!

Re: Flintlock guns
 

Yes, quite - the devil is in the details! And the details make the difference between who dies and whether it feels like it made sense or not.

The initiative and movement system and 5-second turns with no "overwatch/opportunity fire" or interruption during movement are some of the main issues, as well as needing a GM to handle a lot more hidden movement, since one of the main ways to avoid getting shot is to not be seen.