Dihad/Darok status?
 

There were a couple of campaign books published for TFT: "Forest-Lords of Dihad" and "Warrior-Lords of Darok". Does anyone know the status of the copyrights for these? "Dihad" was published by GameLords rather than Metagaming.

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

Steve Jackson ONLY owns rights to the stuff he personally wrote -- so you won't see these unless the author reaquires the rights (and since copies are still being sold, I'm not sure those rules even apply). Last time I checked (which was several years ago), you could still get copies of this from Different Worlds/Gamelords.

Okay, just checked, it looks like you can still get Dihad, but Darok is no longer available. (though you should check out Wayne's Books, Powells Books, Noble Knight, E-Bay, Amazon, and ABE if you want a copy). If you DO go to the web page, click on Thieves Guild too -- you might be able to get the two city-state books from there still (I didn't check). All they need is some sticky notes changing them back into TFT from Thieves Guild rules and you have the two capital cities too...

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

In addition to being incomplete - only 2 of the 4 modules in this proposed Land Beyond The Mountains series were printed - some folks do not consider the existing Dihad and Darok pieces legitimate parts of the TFT Canon.

However, like so many things about TFT, the choice is always left up to you.

JK

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

I got a copy of Dihad somewhere around here.

It has the problem that I think a lot of TFT modules have, which is, shall we say, a lack of clear guidance about what level characters it is appropriate for. I read it and was immediately struck by the fact that a whole lot of it would be over-elaborate suicide for starting characters.

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

I think the thing that annoyed me the most about both Dihad and Darok was the overly cute names that they used. It not only was jarring, but it demonstrated a lack of creativity to me. Very disappointing.

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

I've got all four of these in original hard copies ('completism' is a disease...). Honestly, they are not worth the investment to revive. I'd much rather see something cool and new.

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

As a person who also took the time (and expense) to track these down in hard copy, I have to whole-heartedly agree with Lars on this.

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

Lars, how do you mean? Are you saying after 1982 Gamelords (or someone) published modules for the lands of Soukar, and Muipoco after Metagaming went out of business?

JK

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

Yes Jim, Gamelords converted them from TFT to Thieves World rules and published them pretty much as was. They kind of did a lousy job of conversion in some ways; for instance, a "pet monkey" that one of the NPCs has in one of the city books is elsewhere listed as a "slinker!"

They're both still for sale ($6.95 each) over on the Different Worlds/Gamelords site (go here to find them, and scroll down to "City of the Sacred Flame" and "Within the Tyrant's Demesne") if you're interested. You'll note you can get the Free City of Haven over on that site too, which used to be a benchmark for city modules for a while...

(I mistakenly told someone it was under the Thieves' World menu selection earlier -- it's not, it's under the Haven menu listing...my apologies to whoever I steered wrong!)

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

Okay Jeff, but I must be having a bad day, I have written the words "I'm confused" about 5 times today on various posts LOL!. Are you telling me that Gamelords bothered to not only convert the TFT Dihad and Darok modules, but went and wrote the other 2 modules for Soukar, and Muipoco too???

JK

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

Yes, the two unpublished manuscripts were converted to some sort of systemless format, some names were changed, and then they were published. They are like the wordy parts of the first two without the TFT stats.

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

Fascinating that someone would bother to do so. Thanks for the clarification guys... I would have never guessed.

JK

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

No.

I did a bad job of explaining.

Gamelords was still selling both the Dihad and Darok modules in their original form (as TFT items). (Currently it looks like you can only get the Dihad one -- they must have sold out on the Darok one.)

After Metagaming went Tango Uniform, Gamelords converted the capital city modules for Dihad and Darok to Thieves' World and published them for that system (as the two city modules I mentioned earlier).

The other modules in the proposed group (for Soukar and Muipoco) never saw the light of day (nor did their capital cities) as far as I know.

So there are a total of four modules that were either Land Beyond the Mountains, or hastily converted from that format to Thieves' World. They are the modules for Dihad and Darok (the two that were still in TFT format) and the two capital city modules for Dihad and Darok, which were converted from TFT to Thieves World and published for that system. Nothing for the other two "countries" in Land Beyond the Mountains was ever published.

Sorry for making things worse with an inadequate explanation!

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

Thieves Guild, not Thieves World, which is also an RPG.

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

I stand corrected.

I wonder if Gamelords actually owns the copyright on them (as opposed to merely having the old stock to sell)? If they do, and if Steve Jackson were to contact them, do you suppose they might re-release them (suitably updated for Legacy Edition) some day? That would be kind of cool.

Then, THAT makes me wonder if they have any of the original material for the two capital cities still in TFT format in their files somewhere, and if they have any of the drafts for the OTHER two Lands Beyond the Mountains (which were, supposedly, quite close to being published, according to Metagaming back in the day) that could be knocked into shape, thus, finally, after 35 years, delivering the Lands Beyond the Mountains as originally envisioned!

I know, a complete pipe-dream. Still, one wonders... ;-)

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

Thanks for all that.

Speaking as someone who owns and has used every imaginable material made for the Land Beyond the Mountains setting, my opinion is they should ignore it and move on. It just isn't good enough on its own merits to expend their limited creative energy and financial resources on. Plus I doubt they have access to the IP rights. I'm glad I own this stuff because I'm an TFT obsessive and completist, but honestly I don't use it in play because it isn't that great. If you want it for collector reasons, you'll probably want to hunt down the originals anyway.

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

Since I wasn't suggesting Steve Jackson purchase anything, I'd have to agree. What I was saying is that if SJGs wanted to "relicense" Gamelords to do the stuff over again (thus making it Gamelords' job to do the work, not SJG's), that would be a fascinating outcome.

Given that SJG is now the copyright holder (or Steve is personally, maybe), I would think there wouldn't be anything in the legal side of the house that would prevent something like this from being done. The only real question would be, is Gamelords (and SJG) interested, and do they have the ability to do anything with it nowadays.

Considering that supposedly most of the work was already "in the bag" (at least according to what was publicly said by Metagaming back in the day -- see Angantyr's blog posts for more in-depth discussion), the question then becomes whether or not Gamelords still has all that material in a file box somewhere. If they do, and if there was any interest in publishing it (and fixing it up a bit), it would be pretty cool.

I understand the feeling that it "wasn't worth it" held by some folks, however I believe that such a feeling can be traced to two elements in the stuff as published -- one, the stupid (and extremely lazy) names of the NPCs -- which tended to be so jarring they spoiled the otherwise excellent "atmosphere" of the games; and two, the fact that the complete series was never published, and two of the key elements that WERE published were published for a different game system. But if the originals still exist somewhere, and the other, unpublished material still existed, it would be a relatively trivial exercise in terms of "creativity" to simply scan them, re-do the layout, and get them ready for print (which is not to say that those things are not a lot of work, but rather that "creativity" doesn't come into play much, given that the material is already "created"). Naturally this all pre-supposes that somewhere, Gamelords still has all the draft material -- which is a VERY big assumption given the amount of time that's passed. But if they did...

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

That's too bad. Not surprised the Metagaming over-hyped the status though; Howard had a bad habit of doing that...

Ah well, think of the NEW might-have-beens now (you already did a great job of covering the OLD might-have-beens on your web site)!

Re: Dihad/Darok status?
 

Well, logically, that would be the way you'd want to do it -- and with companies like Frog God putting out 700 page books these days, I suppose it would have happened that way if it were done today. Ah well. I always thought it would have been nice to have the complete Lands Beyond the Mountains... even if I DID have to change all the NPC names to get away from their BS "cutesy" ones... ;-)