Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

I am running a campaign (Afterimage) that is set in a small town currently having an election for mayor. I thought it would be a fun thing to have you guys vote in the election. The PCs will each get a vote as well (those that are legally entitled to a vote - one is playing a woman) and we'll see who wins.

The setting: Harmony was a small town in the Dakota Territories (in what would become South Dakota, USA). It was supported by a gold mine and also a large number of surrounding farms. Then, on January 1, 1895, when the town was throwing a new years celebration, it was suddenly transported to another world.

On arriving, everyone had access to magic, but the area around was mostly an arid dustbowl, strange monsters roam the wilds and the town is now cut off from the farms and trade that supported it. It's been just over a month and the town hasn't found any other sapient life, though they have found some old ruins. Most people's biggest priority is getting enough food before the town starves, which isn't looking good.

In the middle of this, the old mine foreman convinced the mayor to call an election. The candidates that are running are:

Edgar Moore: The incumbent. He's been mayor for nearly a decade now, and is one-year into what was supposed to be a four-year term. He's a jovial, friendly man who's great at making friends with everyone. He's generally accepted as having been a reasonable mayor, but tends to lead by being friends with everyone and leaving people alone to do their thing, which might not be what the town needs. He's mostly running on a platform of stability - try to keep people from panicking by keeping as much of their old routine as he can (while still getting people doing the new jobs that need doing).

Wesley Smith: The old mine boss. He's a tough, no-nonsense type. He claims that he can make hard decisions fast, unlike Edgar, and knows how to keep people working hard in dangerous environments. He has spent the last couple weeks causing trouble trying to get the mayor out of office, however, when many feel him and his people should have been working the farms. It's also a fairly open secret that he's always engaged in a little bit of graft and corruption; taking bribes for better work details and possibly slipping a little bit of money out of the mine's coffers he wasn't supposed to.

Karl Elias: A fairly soft-spoken elderly man, now retired. He was an well-respected officer in the Civil War and is seen as a bit of a war hero by some, but in recent times he's mostly stuck to himself. He's known for not saying a ton, but considering his words carefully. His platform is that Harmony is effectively at war with its new environment and needs martial discipline. He wants to establish a clear chain-of-command and try to transition the town's structure to something resembling an army base.

Feel free to ask questions of me or of the candidates and I'll try to answer them within a day or two. The poll will close Wed, April 11.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Nothing in the first post indicates that Smith and Elias cannot accomplish their desired goals as part of a cabinet led by Moore, a man actually experienced and effective at coalition building and diplomacy, which is what is probably needed to get the most out of everyone.

If Smith has a genuine vision for building infrastructure to replace what the town used to get by trading and/or he seems to be the best man to implement someone else's vision, make him Secretary of the Interior (Treasury, Commerce, etc.). Give him what you can afford, not everything he asks for, and use Moore's time-honed talents at political horsetrading to keep him, Elias and whoever is made Secretary of Acriculture working together as smoothly as possible.

Make Elias Secretary of War. Institute a militia system and possibly, if necessary, allow him a few full-time trainers.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

My votes go as follows:

Smith as mayor, Moore as local judge, and Elias as sheriff. Those are the three posts historically found in frontier towns like the one described. No need for fancy "Secretary of War/Commerce/Agriculture" titles in a frontier town.

Usually, when a town was starting out, the saloon owner ended up as judge and mayor by default, because his place was the largest gathering spot, unless the local preacher had a separate church building. Did Moore start as the saloon owner?

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

A normal frontier town in the late 19th USA didn't have much need for a powerful executive, because they generally didn't concern themselves with national infrastructure or public defence. The federal government did that, with forts, roads and cavalry.

These aren't just frontier townspeople any more. For all they know, they are the only people in the world and the new Founding Fathers of this reality's United States (or any other polity they choose to make). Their concerns are fundamentally different to those of a frontier town where they can call inothers for help or leave if they choose.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Edgar Moore: President/Mayor. We should really have a light touch at the helm to start with. It is to bad we don't have someone more sophisticated sounding to conduct foreign policy. The other two have a mean streak and that will be needed at times but some a soft touch will be needed at top.

Wesley Smith: Secretary of the Interior. Despite his reputation for sleaze a bit of management experience is useful.

Karl Elias, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Or whatever the town wants to call it. This is a bit dangerous and has threats of Bonapartism, but if he is an honest man we can use him to help the town hold it's own.

Note that the town is now a city state at this time and will be acting in a sovereign manner. It cannot any longer think of governing itself like a normal small town.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

I agree with Icelander and Jason Taylor, they cover the salient points.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Id rather have mr moore hiring me for dangerous wuests than the other two forcing me, thanks

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Nice idea. My vote is for Moore. A negative outcome with him in charge means the town is less effective in dealing with external threats or the food crisis; but it might adapt, over time, to these factors and overcome them even under a consensus leadership.
OTOH, a negative outcome with either of the other two at the helm is riots, if not civil war. Worse than the alternative above.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Another vote for Moore, and another vote for Icelander's points!


Smith may actually be a problem (he sound like he's already causing them), he is now a mine owner without a mine. So he's gone from major power in the local area to a person who just lost his source of power but maybe still able to command loyalty or at least support of the mine workers who have also just lost the initial basis for their skill sets adding value to the town.

He (and maybe they) will need to be handled carefully in order to be integrated into the new situation. As a general point as food stress increases tempers will rise and divisions will increase. Which to me means the skill set of Moore will be needed more than ever!

I agree I'd have Smith in the local council, and have him and his crews working infrastructure projects.

Quick question what's the town doing for water? If it's sinking wells, that may well be new work for Smith and his crews.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

I'd like to know the candidates' Appearance, Charisma, Status and Reputation modifiers in order to make an informed decision. (That is, a Reaction Roll). :)

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Wouldn't the miners make a significant voting bloc?

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

They could well be, either way they will have to be considered both as voters and as a section within society who's original role is gone (but not necessarily with skill sets that aren't of use, see above)

One assumes all the miners were at the new year's celebration, and there wasn't teams on site when it all happened.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Hard to choose, but I voted for Elias.

Smith as described seem dangerous.
Moore would be a logical choice for a coalition leader, but Elias has a point : Monster around, No food supply and no support = need for an (hopefully temporary) general conscription. The delays and compromises inherent in a coalition approach may prove deadly.
Of course, hopefully it will be a Cincinnatus, not a Maximinus.

The "access to magic" bit may change everything, of course ... any more details on that point ?

Edit : forgot to add that this seem like an awesome campaign !

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

My knee jerk would be voting for the incumbent.

However, what are people talking about in the Saloons?

Or what do the women think (although they have no vote).

BTW is this akin to the 1632 novels?

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

No arable land at all? No food source has been found? The monsters, are they aggressive? Have they been a problem inside the town? And what's this about magic? What kind?

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Given the available information, I wouldn't expect a change in government -- in general, to force a change in government, you have two needs:

1. Demonstrate that the existing government isn't doing its job.
2. Appear a suitable alternative.

You haven't really done (1), and (2) looks dubious too. Being more specific might help.
Has this been a problem? His candidacy would look more plausible if indecision was a demonstrable problem. Also, you really need to give him some positive traits to balance out the negatives, or no-one will consider him.
Does he even want to be mayor? Martial discipline under civilian senior command is something he'd be perfectly familiar with.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Smith is a bad choice because graft - in a dire situation with scarce resources - is a recipe for disaster. Elias seems capable, but monsters are conceptually just like...large wolves, so a full conscription may not be necessary. But the biggest thing in favor of Moore is his focus on actually getting people to get along; we'll need to work together, and iron-handed tactics don't sound like a good plan.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

This kind of reminds me of the Battlestar Galactica reboot. Humanity suddenly finds itself down to a precious few. Put that military man in charge!

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

This led me to checking on how new year's used to be celebrated- I'm sure it hasn't always been the over-the-top affair we have now- and thus learnt about Watchnight.

Don't know if it'd be at all useful, but perhaps it could add an interesting twist to who was where when the town slipped dimensions.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

He was once the saloon owner, but hasn't ran it for a decade. In recent times, it has been run by a nephew of his.

This is a really good point and is one that none of the PCs have brought up, nor really have any of the candidates (at least not in those terms).

This absolutely could been (some would say, has been) a problem already.

There's a river a few miles from the town's new location (on the banks of which is where they are trying to set up new farms) and some people have been lugging water from there. There are also wells already in place within the town proper and some of those still have water flowing into them. While some people have talked about something more substantial for water, there is a lack of building materials and it's seen as lower priority than other issues, since they do have enough water to get by.

Heh. I don't actually have stats written up for them, but here goes:

Appearance: Smith and Elias both have Attractive, but Smith's is a muscled good looking man sort, while Elias has that stately older gentleman sort. Moore is average appearance.

Charisma: I don't think any of them actually constitute a level of Charisma.

Status: Smith and Moore are Status 2, while Elias is Status 1.

Reputation: Moore has Rep 2 (Everyone's friend). Smith has Rep 2 (Hard-working and quick-thinking), as well as Rep -1 (Slightly crooked). Elias has Rep 1 (War hero), rising to Rep 2 among former Union soldiers.

Core campaigning skills: Moore: Leadership 10, Diplomacy 11, Public Speaking 12, Carousing 11, Politics 10
Smith: Leadership 11, Carousing 13, Public Speaking 8, Diplomacy 9, Politics 8
Wesley: Leadership 12, Public Speaking 11, Politics 9, Diplomacy 9

They absolutely are a large voting bloc and a good chunk of that is likely to vote for Smith, but definitely not all of them.

Sure. It's a (completely insane) homebrew system where people get cards when completing various tasks (the tasks are randomly generated and include things from climbing mountains to starting fights to convincing someone to trust them). Each spell people have has a poker hand associated with it (better hand = more powerful spell) and once they've assembled the hand, they can play it to cast the spell. I can give more deets in a post in a bit.

In effect, magic seems to want people to do weird things and rewards them with power for doing so (this is naturally a source of chaos in the town). The more strategic-scale can do some pretty insanely powerful things (ex: granting someone Extra Life or changing the biome type of a 5 mile by 5 mile area), but only a few in the town have access to magic of that level and it can take multiple sessions to pull off.

Thanks!

The election was called on pretty short notice, so there hasn't been a lot of time. A lot of people are worried about the food situation and that not a lot has been done to solve it (people are setting up farms along the river but in a kind of haphazard way and it doesn't seem like it'll be enough).

The women are fairly split but are overall skewed towards Moore.

And, I haven't read the 1632 novels but as I understand, the idea is somewhat similar, but was inspired a bit by Banestorm, a weird magic system idea I wanted to do, and wanting to do something a bit Weird Westy.

There are some food stores that the town has that'll last for a couple months. There is some arable land along the river, but it's not particularly good arable land and getting it ready for harvest before the food runs out is going to be pretty difficult. There have been a couple incidents with monsters. One was eating cattle and the PCs took it down and a couple have attacked people outside town. None have actually attacked the town itself.

Yeah, I should have been more clear about this. A lot of people feel he should be specifically organizing the farming by drafting people into that work and taking command, but he's mostly just been letting people deal with it as they see fit. A lot of people also think he should be forcing rationing of the supplies, which he hasn't really done much of.

True. When one of the PCs asked him about this, he said he doesn't really want to be mayor but thinks that neither of the other candidates will be good for the town.

Yes. That was also a bit of an inspiration.

Yup. I know about Watchnight.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

I'm interested, but I suggest starting a separate thread.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Moore.

Smith seems crooked and a malcontent, and I don't want martial law either

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

I'd also back Moore... with the suggestion that someone (of the PCs) push themselves to the front and take on organizing the town as Moore's Deputy-Mayor.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

My vote is for Karl Elias: what that town needs right now most is leadership--someone who can inspire everyone to go in the same direction. Elias is the best leader and, from what we have been told about him, he seems to have the right motives. It is possible that things could go "off the rails" and turn into a tyrannical dictatorship, but that is also possible with Smith. Moore seems too weak a leader to actually get everyone to work together like they need to. As soon as things start going badly really badly (which they almost certainly will without a strong leader to organize everyone) Smith or some other opportunist will take over.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

I was going for Moore, but then the additional info about him not doing any leading came out: it really sounds like that he is just going to let things slide as if the town was still in Dakota. Furthermore, it has been a MONTH since the incident, and it sounds like not much has been accomplished by Moore. A big minus for that.

I don't trust the corrupt mine boss, although I do agree with him that we need a new mayor. He'd likely stuff his own pockets and probably even go after his political opponents in purges.

Karl Elias convinced me that this is a desperate situation and more proactive stance is needed. The food supply needs to be secured, and with the monsters out, every man for himself is not going to work out. Everyone needs to work together, and get on with the program. We need food, and it would be good to get someone working on black powder, too, since we are likely using ammunition like crazy with these new monsters around. So hell yes, I want a trusted military man in charge who knows how to lead and understands the need to secure the supply.

Frankly, is there any reason NOT to move the whole town (i.e. build a new one) to the river where the arable land is? A few miles each way means that you are spending a good part of the day walking back and forth that monster-infested land. You mentioned that building materials are scarce, but I'd expect a lot of the buildings are beams, boards and nails. You can dismantle it (carefully) and then rebuild it at the new location easily enough. If there are native trees and such, we should be able to build a stockade (fort), too, easily enough. (Hmm. I think my 'PC' is a former US cavalry, which explains my vote, too. Additional +1 Rep for Good Ol' Captain Elias. :P )

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

I went with Moore. Just remember his slogan: "There's more in store with Moore!"

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

I too was going to vote for Moore until it came out that he hasn't been doing much of anything other than enforcing the same kind of "live and let live" approach. That probably would've been great in Dakota but out here with magic that encourages chaos and monsters (and who knows what else) out there folks need something a little bit more structured.

I'll vote for Elias with a push to keep Moore on as something public facing, he sounds like he'd be a great resource for Elias-as-Mayor even without an actual office if only because he's so good and talking to folks and getting them to agree on things.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Seeing as at least one monster has been killed, and the city has a food issue, I feel I must ask the obvious question - are the monsters edible? If so, I'd totally vote for Elias, as he'll be the best at getting the monsters killed, which will help buy time for the farms to be established.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

It's not obvious that any them is the right person. Doing nothing and letting people go their own way likely won't work well, but neither a mining company nor a military unit is a terribly appropriate model either.

The primary problem is not military (or if it is, everyone is going to die), the primary problem is subsistence. There likely won't be any people in town with exactly the right skill set, but given the time period there could still be homesteaders and the like with some experience at colonizing.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Well, for a nuts and bolts explanation of how it works, yeah, it would be better in a separate thread. In this thread though, I think it's still topical to know more about magic to see how useful it may be to apply to the town's problems, and which of the mayoral candidates might be best suited to plan with it in mind. I'm especially curious to know what the characters in the setting know about it. How did they discover it? How did they learn how to use it? Does it work differently for different people? Are there known limits to what it can do? How reliable is it? etc.
Well, I don't think Elias is a perfect candidate, but a military mindset should be helpful in organizing, at least, which does sound like a dire need.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

I can't help but think there's a way to have your cake and eat it too, with Moore and Elias.

Elias doesn't seem to need or want to be in charge in order to bring his skills and experience to the situation.

To me the best possible scenario is Moore as "head of state", with Elias as 2nd in command with a pretty free hand over the areas of his responsibility. Both supporting the other when it comes to each other's responsibility.

Elias might see a need for a bit of military organisation, but the town and it's people are not a military organisation and soldiers. He'll need Moore's skillset with the towns people.

Moore, might want to maintain normalcy, but the situation isn't normal. He needs Elias' skill set for marshalling the town for dealing with it.


This would not only seem to be best for the town in terms of best people for the job but also satisfies the motivations of both Moore and Elias

(if Moore has a background of maintaining power against political challenges and divvying up responsibility between friends and allies, I would imagine the above would have occurred to him, but if he hasn't maybe the PCs could suggest it and/or help broker it?)


Bonus positive is these two together likely dissuade Smith from causing trouble.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Many nations have instituted a military draft or organised a militia system without it being necessary to replace the civil government with a military one. Elias can perfectly well be put in charge of establishing a militia and defending the town without making him Mayor, President or giving him full executive authority.

In fact, I'd argue that combining the highest office of the state with the effective day-to-day commander of the military is actively harmful, in that it risks reducing the town solely to a military camp, which despite what Elias might think has not historically had great success when it comes to sustained economic development.

Put it bluntly, doing nothing and letting people figure things out themselves might well yield more food production in the long term than a centrally managed program under the command of someone who doesn't have the first idea about farming.

It is true that the town needs authority that they likely haven't exercised much until now, to organise for major infrastructure projects, to confiscate private property when necessary and to levy work duties from everyone. But neither Moore, Smith nor Elias have any relevant knowledge to organising the most important projects, i.e. those related to becoming self-sufficient in subsistence farming production.

In light of that fact, it will be necessary for any of them to appoint other men to manage those all important projects and invest them with the necessary authority. As such, Elias and Smith do not appear to have any advantages over Moore, in that Moore can perfectly well appoint them to similar positions as his Acriculture czar.

People might decry professional politicians as unnecessary and a blight on democracy, but it is nevertheless a fact that exercising power in a way that minimises discontent and allows at least a narrow majority to feel included is a learned skill. Moore has learned it.

Smith and Elias are both, in their own way, used to making decisions without having to worry about who likes them. That's fine, if they were simply managing a short-term emergency. It's potentially disastrous, when proposed as the permanent form of government for the last pocket of a former democracy as they prepare to face the challenges of a new world and a new future.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

.....Yep +1,

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Unfortunately, what might be the 'best' option under a reasoned analysis of the candidates' personalities and the unique situation they're in may not necessarily be the option that a popular vote held among a populace of frightened, hungry and desperate voters would choose. In such a situation, they might be more inclined to go for the tough guy who promises immediate action, especially if he's more skilled at such propaganda.

In this case, Smith could well be taking a shot at the power seat because he sensed that the incumbent's position was weakening among the townsfolk. What's his long term goal?

And a more meta consideration- which option would give the greatest dramatic benefit to the game?

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

I vote to make Moore the Judge rather than Mayor. At the least, it'd keep a check against either of the other two gaining a lot of power, and his history of fairness will be a plus when the civil cases between townsfolk are brought before him.

I also vote that Elias be made Militia Captain or Sheriff or whatever term they decide on for the guy maintaining law and defense in the town and surrounding areas, in particular the route between the town and the river. He seems like they kind of person they need in that role

That makes Smith the only remaining choice for mayor, unless someone like Moore's nephew gets a large write-in percentage. In fact, that could easily happen: someone who doesn't want the role but the town decides would be a better choice than any of the three declared candidates, so they scribble his name in instead. Especially if "we need younger leaders who can adapt" becomes a thing. One thing I noticed about the three main candidates is that they're older and rather set in their ways. A new place may call for new ideas and new leaders.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Actually that's a point, did this town have it's own judge before? (or did it rely on travelling ones).

They're going to need one weather it's one of these three or not

I think the problems with Smith (AFAICT no positive qualifications or experience, and a history of corruption) basically wally him out from the get go. Even if we think the other two might be better suited for other roles than mayor.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Thanks! I voted for Smith: he seems like a guy who can get things done. That is, he got a 14 on his Reaction Roll. What this town needs right now is a man of action with hands-on experience leading men in a tough situation. Now, some of you might say Elias is that man, but despite his undeniable good qualities, he's just too old and reclusive to bring the required energy to the task (he only got an 8), and the incumbent, while a decent fellow in every respect, is more of an administrator than a real leader (he got 11).

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

heh, sorry!

I guess for me just being a mine owner doesn't necessarily mean he's good at leading people in a tough situation. Was he hands on running the crews dealing with the day to day, or did he sit in an office while others made it all happen. And well there's no mine now to display his personal prowess and talents with (real or not)

And then you have the corruption issues

TBH to me when you look at the two side by side in terms of the skills given by dfinley:

Core campaigning skills:

Moore: Leadership 10, Diplomacy 11, Public Speaking 12, Carousing 11, Politics 10
Smith: Leadership 11, Diplomacy 9, Public Speaking 8, Carousing 13, Politics 8

While Moore is no great statesmen he's got advantages over Smith in both campaigning for office and being in office (IMO)

Smith has a point advantage in leadership, and significant advantage in Carousing (and looks more heroic). But when it comes to stumping* not only is Moore better at it, but he has experience and incumbent advantage.



*that public speaking QC is going to hurt Smith!

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Mr. Smith paid me to vote for him. So I did since I don't want my legs to be broken by some of his boys...

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Can we get some campaign promises? They're the bread and butter of democratic office seekers world wide.

Edit: I think giving Smith a vision for the community would really help him out in the polls. Just what will his hard decisions be?

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

I voted for Moore, he has the best campaign team (run by Icelander).

Mainly I am reluctant to change mayor in the middle of a crisis unless he has done something seriously wrong.

Re: Vote in my Campaign's Election
 

Does this town have a newspaper? Lots of small towns did.

Presses, back then, were relatively less expensive than offset presses are, today.