[Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Previous Thread: Extra Attack
Next Thread: Extra Legs

If you're new to this series or just want to leave feedback about it, check out the Introduction Thread. If you need help finding something we've already discussed, johndallman is maintaining an index of which traits we've discussed. This is especially handy if the trait you are searching for happens to have been part of a multi-subject review.

Basic

We will deviate from my usual practice of starting with the alphabetically earlier trait and begin with Extra Mouth (p. B55) is an Exotic, Physical trait that costs 5 CP per level, or as the text puts it, "per mouth". This is one of those traits where the name is spot on; each time this trait is purchased, your character will have one more mouth past the default of one. This additional mouth can do anything your primary mouth can do: bite, breathe, eat, and speak.* A secondary mouth can allow you to bite twice in a turn, cast two Spells in a turn, carry on multiple conversations, etc. if you also buy the appropriate, additional traits like Compartmentalized Mind (p. B43), Extra Attack (p. B53-54), etc.

Extra Head (p. B54) is also an Exotic, Physical Advantage, this time costing 15 CP per head (level). Again, this is exactly as the name would lead you to believe; your body has more than one head, and unless you take Limitations that state otherwise, will include all the benefits of one level of Enhanced Tracking (p. B53) and Extra Mouth (above) per head. Each Extra Head contains an extra copy of your brain (memories, personality, skills), but not a full, additional mind (take Compartmentalized Mind for that), just a spare in case the other is destroyed. Speaking of which, if you have this trait, you cannot suffer more than [2 x (HP/# of heads)] points of damage from a single head or neck blow.

A single head can be rendered unconscious independent of the other(s); the other head(s) continue to function as normal under such circumstances. Having a spare head means that a normally fatal head injury, such as from a critical head blow, merely destroys that particular head. It will inflict maximum damage, and the method of destruction depends upon the nature of the attack. [Basic] includes one specialized Limitation just for Extra Head: "Extraneous" (p. B54) means your Extra Head does not house a spare brain, or at least, not one housing a copy of your memories, personality, and skills. A single attack can do no more than [1.5 x (HP/# of heads)] to an Extraneous Extra Head, but it can't serve as a backup if your main head is injured or destroyed e.g. even if the Extra Head is perfectly fine, the destruction of the primary head will still kill the character. An Extraneous Extra Head still includes all the benefits of Enhanced Tracking and Extra Mouth, however.

Other Supplements

• GURPS Powers contains fleeting mentions of Extra Head and Extra Mouth, usually just while explaining more advanced rules not centered around them.

Past Editions

Barring some embarrassing oversight, I do not have access to any past edition books that contain earlier versions of these traits; not even GURPS Update lists them. I recall seeing an option for Giants in GURPS Fantasy Folk, allowing them to take an Extra Head; if someone still has a copy of that (or another supplement with the Third Edition version of either trait), feel free to give us an idea of how Extra Head and/or Extra Mouth worked under the older rules. For that matter, if they actually appear before Third Edition, a synopsis of those rules would be welcome as well.

Useful Links

Feel free to suggest any existing threads or other, appropriate links on this matter. All I currently have is this interesting thread where someone suggests using Extra Mouth to help model a pincer, including what (as far as I know) are non-RAW Limitations for stripping away things like being able to actually breathe, eat, or speak from said mouth. For better or worse, the proposed build is one of the last few posts in a seven post thread.

Discussion Starters

This is (usually) a generic list of questions for those who want to participate in the discussion but need a little help. If you already know what you want to say, feel free to skip these. ;)

• Have you ever taken either of these traits for one of your PCs or NPCs? How did it work out?
• Is there anything either of traits do really well?
• Is there anything you think these traits could or should do differently?
• Any related traits you believe are necessary for full discussion? Go ahead and bring them up, but remember that this is a thread for Extra Head and Extra Mouth.
• Any thoughts on how the 4e version of these traits compares to them in earlier editions?

*The text in [Basic] doesn't mention if your secondary mouth includes a sense of taste, but that seems to be implied given that would be the one oddball capability a normal mouth has that is conspicuously lacking.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

It's basically similar, still [15], but with some more details for giants. Each head that's unconscious or dead reduces the giant's IQ by 3, and if a head is deafened, the giant is Hard of Hearing.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

In 4e, those would probably inverted disadvantages with limitations:

• IQ -3, IQ +3 (Accessibility: extra head is conscious, -??%)
• Hard of Hearing, Not Hard of Hearing (Accessibility: extra head is conscious, -??%)

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

The basic bite attack is a rather limited crushing striker - instead of

• Reach C,1,
• counts as a weapon,
• redundancy with other extremities,
• and bonus damage per die,

it's

• reach C,
• can be damaged on a parry normally as an unarmed attack,
• damage is to a Face hit location (with the special problems with Knockdown/stun)
• and suffers a damage penalty.

That's basically a perk, so -20%.

I might call breathing and speaking -20% each (both can be urgent) while eating is a more long term problem that you usually have more opportunities to escape, so only another -10%.

Yes, that doesn't add up to 100%, I'm not sure this can be carved up into sensible chunks (it's hard to separate breathing and speech...) to make individual traits. If you're bound and determined, then breathing and speaking would be -30% each and eating would be -20% but I don't think it's totally fair.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

One of the interesting uses I've seen for Extra Mouth is mounting it on a Striker to create a pincer. I think I saw it somewhere on these message boards, but I obviously didn't find it again before posting this thread. Anyway, the reason I bring that up is knowing how to "remove" the other aspects of being a second mouth would be very useful for such a build.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Actually if your limitations add up to 100% you are being too generous with their value.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Only if you aren't using Martial Arts. If you are, add:

• Can bite and grapple as a single attack (see MA 115)
• Can automatically damage grappled opponents.

It's not entirely clear how you do that in GURPS with a non-bite attack, though there are a number of real world animals that do so (e.g. crabs, lobsters, scorpions, maybe praying mantis).

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

RAW doesn't specify that it must be on your face; could be an oversight, but to give you an idea, I assumed it was anywhere because why would you have a second mouth so close to your original?

Note that if you have an entire Extra Head, that trait already includes having an Extra Mouth for no additional cost.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

A praying mantis's forelimbs should be able to do those things IMO. As it happens, somewhere on these forums I've seen a "crab claws" build based off of extra mouth with some limitations relating to the inability to do anything mouth-like other than biting.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Not sure if it is the same one you were looking for, but here is the one I mentioned earlier. I think the relevant posts are

I don't have Martial Arts, so I don't understand that last post, but it looked important. ;)

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

It's mostly aimed at the box about Teeth in Close Combat and Grapples and how relative SM and Born Biter can make it very bad to be bitten...

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

So... that means it was worth including in this discussion about Extra Mouth, right? ^^'

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

I'd note that the rules for latching on are mentioned in DFRPG as well, though not in as much detail as MA gives. But yes, the rules for grabbing and worrying make a big difference for biting.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Definitely!

Should probably throw something into this thread (even the OP) about Born Biter as well...

If you don't get to it I'll try to remember to do it after work (a post about Born Biter and the Teeth stuff from MA).

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Not sure I actually have anything on Born Biter in my own materials. My signature contains my entire GURPS 4e library; if I missed it in one of those, let me know. That said I should go back and add some of the related traits I overlooked because the text didn't spoon-feed it to me. I think I'll have to make that its own section...

...but it might have to wait until finish I getting this week's entry up and ready in a few hours. Oh well, at least this helps justify avoiding mutli-trait threads unless they are incredibly interconnected. I almost made one big thread called "Extra Body Parts", but how much longer would it have taken me to notice some of these finer details?

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

I realize that using extra mouth for pincers also requires an enhancement that the mouth doesn't have a jaw hit location.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Yeah its in Martial Arts and I think PowerUps Perks.
Up to 3 levels and each level is +1 SM to what you can bite and easier to hit your jaw in combat.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

If it is, I missed it even with Control + F.

I am seeing "Biting Mastery" and "Rapid Retraction" that apply to biting (and thus could matter for Extra Mouth).

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

I just checked Biting Mastery is nice but not the same thing.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Just Martial Arts.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

You might be limiting the search a bit too much - "Born Biters" is on p. 115 of Martial Arts, bottom right of the "Teeth" box.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

He doesnt have Martial Arts, not in his sig line.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Ah, you're right. Apologies, Otaku. I guess you were searching Power-Ups 2: Perks.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

S'okay; GURPS Martial Arts is on my Wishlist, I just haven't made a lot of progress on it myself for various reasons. ^^'

Does it? I'm really quickly glancing at the Hit-Location stuff on p. B398, where "jaw" is part of the "Face" Hit-Location. If this is something handled in more detail in other supplements, okay: feel free to give us a page reference when you have the chance. Otherwise, I'm really not sure how to handle it; I'd go with what you say by default because that seems to be the "safe" approach, but an Extra Mouth gets wonky. I mean, your real jaw is what it is because it is on your face. An Extra Mouth on your hand, in your torso, on a tail, etc. still probably has teeth, might have a tongue, but if it is located close to your brain you've probably got an Extra Head situation.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Jaw is a specific location in MA, and Born Biter interacts with it, so probably.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Yeah but for Pincers I would treat them as an arm or hand for hit location purposes. A creature like this probably has a modified hit location table anyway.

I have usually used Extra Arm with No Fine Manipulators for pincers and add claws if thy can do damage. But the Extra Mouth idea has some merit, if only because its a simpler build.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Okay. So when someone has a chance, a page number would be really handy.

Just to test my understanding, the idea is that both your original and any Extra Mouths are assumed to be located in a manner where being hit in the Jaw will produce certain results, so an Extra Mouth somewhere else needs an equivalent drawback or else this acts as an Enhancement.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Yes, though looking at extra mouth, which explicitly permits 'anywhere on the body', makes me uncertain. Part of the problem is born biter, which has an explicit tradeoff of making the jaw and nose easier to hit, and without that would be an advantage instead of a 0p feature.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Pg 115 Martial Arts, box text labeled "Teeth".

Basically it details what you can bite based on you relative SM, frex if it's equal or smaller no biting your opponents skull. This is why the Born Biter feature is listed there, that alters the mouth for purposes of SM (making it bigger for biting and being hit).

Also other possibilities in combat are detailed, like worrying on follow-up turns, that teeth grapples are treated as two-handed, interaction with a few specific hit locations (nose and ear), throat bites are automatically strangles, etc.


Basically it really makes doing a Crab Claw as an Extra Mouth a great way to go...

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

This Does Not Follow. The mouth on the front of your head doesn't give you a "free bite" against people who punch your face, and you get to see THAT one coming.

Nothing in the description says that you get a "free attack" against someone who attacks a hit location with a mouth on it, and there's no precedent for that with a regular mouth.

The closest is the aggressive parry technique, which woudln't apply because you can't defend against attacks from behind.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

I wouldn't allowing 'buying the teeth' as Strikers, but I would allow for a Striker and Extra Mouth to be described as the same 'limb' weapon (so yes, in effect you are buying 'the teeth' as a Striker).

However if they are bought as an AA, then I wouldn't allow the free grapple in response to a Parry.



Now I really want to play in a Gamma World AtE game and play a Lobstrosity...

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

MA has the Limb limitation for Strikers, and that seems to be the closest RAW thing to a 'hand-mouth'.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

You can certainly buy a head striker, but it doesn't seem that it would actually have the function of teeth (so you could use it for damage as a striker, or you could bite and worry with it, but not both at once).

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

I meant buying Extra Mouth with the 'limb' limitation to represent another limb being able to act as a mouth, but having a shared crippling pool and the like.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Extra mouth doesn't grant a limb, it just lets you place an extra mouth anywhere on your body. You could possibly do extra head with a limb limitation, though.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

Why am I quoting myself? Because I just got GURPS Martial Arts as a gift! :D Now to make the time to read it. ;)

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#53): Extra Head, Extra Mouth
 

I hope you enjoy it!