[Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

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Basic

Today we will be looking at three traits - Extended Lifespan, Longevity, and Unaging - as they all reduce or completely eliminate the detrimental effects of aging. By default, once a character is 50 years old, once per year the player or GM must make a HT-based "aging roll" for each of the four main Attributes (ST, DX, IQ, and HT itself). At age 70, the frequency you must roll goes from once-per-year to every six months, then it halves again to once every three months at age 90. Success means there is no decline, but failure means that Attribute drops by one and a critical failure lowers the Attribute in question by two. TL provides a modifier to these rolls (see p. B444 for details), and you may not use Luck to re-roll. With the GM's permission, you may be able to lose CP from your character equal to the value of the lost Attribute(s) instead: losing or reducing an Advantage, gaining or worsening a Disadvantage.

Longevity (p. B66) is a Mundane, Physical Advantage that costs 2 CP and affects what fails for aging rolls. If you have this trait, only a 17 or 18 fails and only the latter counts as a critical failure. If your modified HT roll is against 17 or more, then only an 18 fails, and it doesn't count as a critical failure. Extended Life Span (p. B53) is an Exotic, Physical Advantage that costs 2 CP per level. Each level doubles your age of maturity (18 is the default), the age at which you first start making aging rolls once per year, the age at which you must roll once every six months, and the age at which you must roll once every three months. This can be combined with Longevity.

Unaging (p. B95), an Exotic, Physical Advantage that costs 15 CP, and prevents you from needing to make aging rolls at all. It also prevents you from being aged unnaturally, unless you take another trait that says otherwise (like Dependency with the "Ages Unnaturally" Enhancement). There is an Enhancement available to Unaging - Age Control - which adds +20% to the cost but allows you to superficially age (no aging rolls, but your appearance changes accordingly). You may do so at up to 10 times the normal pace of aging, and in either direction (growing older or younger). Even the book points out that it is more cost efficient to take Unaging than 8 (or more) levels of Extended Lifespan.

Other Supplements

• GURPS Powers does not mention Extended Lifespan or Longevity, and only mentions Unaging as part of various Powers, and in passing while explaining more general concepts (the appropriate use of Limited, for example).
• GURPS Supers includes Longevity in multiple templates.
• GURPS Update lets us know that Extended Lifespan, Longevity, and Unaging all share the same name as their 3e counterparts. It also lists Extended Lifespan and Unaging in write-ups for replicating certain 3e traits that did not transfer to 4e.

Past Editions

Under the Third Edition (Revised) rules, aging operated in a similar manner as it does now. As such, so do all three of these traits. One relevant difference is that you could take "Age" as a Disadvantage. Longevity can be found on page 21 of GURPS Basic Set (Third Edition, Revised), where it costs 5 CP, lacks the bonus effect when your HT roll is made against a 17 or higher and states that you cannot receive points back from the Age Disadvantage if you have Longevity. I don't know in which supplement they first appear, but we'll be referencing Compendium I for the next two traits.

Extended Lifespan appears on page 54 and is specifically cited as a Racial Advantage (thus unavailable to Supers or the like). It costs 5 CP per level and works very similar to its Fourth Edition counterpart. The differences I noticed were that each level does not double the time between major age thresholds, but increases the span by the base value e.g. one level would effectively double things, but two levels merely triples the original value (instead of quadrupling it). The text also mentions that time between required aging rolls also doubles.

Finally, Unaging shows up on page 69. Again, the character may not take the "Age" Disadvantage, or at least cannot get any points back for taking it. Though unnamed, the same Enhancement that allows one to age in either direction at up to 10 times the normal speed is present. As Third Edition rules capped how many points you could invest in Skills based on age, a suggestion on how to handle that is also given.

Useful Links

Feel free to suggestion any existing threads or other, appropriate links on this matter.

Discussion Starters

This is (usually) a generic list of questions for those who want to participate in the discussion but need a little help. If you already know what you want to say, feel free to skip these. ;)

• Have you ever taken this trait for one of your PCs or NPCs? How did it work out?
• Is there anything this trait does really well?
• Is there anything you think this trait could or should do differently?
• Any related traits you believe are necessary for full discussion? Go ahead and bring them up, but remember that this is a thread for Elastic Skin.
• Any thoughts on how the 4e version of these traits compares to them in earlier editions?

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

Monster hunters has several templates that ought to have unaging on them, but explicitly don't because it's not an advantage in play.

Similarly, many gms replace these traits with immunity or resistance to aging effects.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

I've only dealt with Longevity, which I allow characters to buy freely in play provided they do so before they're old enough to make their first aging roll. I both run and play campaigns in which multiple years of game time have passed, and where characters can reasonably make long-term plans. I've also used it when writing character sheets for historical people; it's usually fairly obvious who should have it.

Fit and Very Fit apply to aging rolls, of course. I'd be interested in the limitation value for "HT, only for aging rolls."

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

I have taken Longevity on a PC once, as a justification for her looking 20ish in her mid-30s or so. I felt the cost was OK as an unusual background of sorts. OTOH, I haven't ever taken Elastic Skin because when I go for versatile shapeshifty traits, I go for Morph.

As a GM, I mostly treat all aging-related traits as Features because the longest aging that PCs in my campaigns underwent is a decade (of years that are shorter than ours).

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

Longevity and Unaging go a long way back. I think pretty definitely before the 3rd ed. Maybe even all the way to 1e. When I first saw them Longevity was 40 pts and Unaging as 60 pts.

I thing to note about the old version of Extended Lifespan is that most Racial templates (such as in Bio-tech) took a separate Advantage to not have their date of maturity doubled. In 4e this became a 0 pt Feature.

As to characters, in 3e I had a 500 year-old character who had none of these traits. He just used Magic to prevent aging, specifically the Halt Aging spell.

When I was GM'ing World of D'y'r't Famed mage Aldehar the Incendiary got a Great Wish once and used it to become Unaging. That saved him from learning and casting the Halt Aging spell.

If you wonder about the rest of the group from that campaign I think Gage, King of Rogues had some sort of plan about not dying but she kept it secret. I'm sure she wasn't going anywhere without her money. Nix the Barbarian said she was going to Heaven with Brother Hugh. Sometimes when he did that Brother Hugh was just running errands for Ra but he wasn't going to tell Nyx she couldn't come.

My first 4e character, Belisiarius MacArthur, genetically engineered warrior-accountant had 2 levels of Extended Lifespan from his nano. He could have gotten more time from bio-tech rejuvenation if he needed it too but before that came up he acquired a sort of life support symbiont.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

Yeah.

The most important reason that the changes that Project Jade Serenity caused in the 'supersoldier' candidates include something like Longevity, Extended Lifespan or even Unaging was to justify comic book aging and the trope that most every important character has the physique of someone in their young adult prime, unless it's an important plot point for them not to.

Chase Taylor (my PC) doesn't look even remotely his age at 37 and Cherry Bell, our NPC resident psychopath, looks nineteen at most, despite being 36. Some of the US Army Special Forces NPCs who were in their mid-forties already when they went through Project Jade Serenity look rugged enough seventeen years later, even appropriately middle-aged, but they are all ripped as [bleep], with the bodies of much younger men.

In any campaign where point costs matter, I agree with this. I've never had Longevity, Extended Lifespan or Unaging actually provide an in-game benefit woth a single point. They are merely a part of background.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

They aren't in 1e. Longevity is in Horseclans, from 1987, where it is 40 points. I don't know where Unaging originated.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

The only time I've ever seen it come up as 'useful' is in games where enemies have powers based on Ageing... but it's still very rare, and even in those games the ageing effects were pretty much as easily fixable as HP damage was.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

Lately I've been treating Unaging as a Rare category for Resistant, Longevity as a perk-level Unusual Background, and letting all other age-related traits fall by the wayside while treating lifespan as a Feature. Aging-based attacks work in proportion to the target's natural lifespan (or one-half/one-quarter that amount for Resistant levels lower than Immunity, if that's appropriate). Age Control becomes limited shapeshifting.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

My current campaign is centered around a party of elves all of whom are unaging. The campaign is planned to cover about seven or eight thousand years of game time in erratic detail. I have had to throw in a couple of house rules to do with skill levels as a result. There are some other issues to do with linguistic drift as well.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

Maybe Fantasy Folk or wherever else Elves first appeared.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

That is where I first saw it. I remember Longevity in the 3e Basic set in ~1988 costing 40 points, and then seeing Extended Lifespan and Unaging in Fantasy Folk a couple years later for 15 and 60 points respectively.

I had several characters who took Longevity at 40 points, but I honestly can't tell you why. It was junior high and I did a lot of things that I don't understand now. There may have been a fascination with characters that were old but looked young--I also played a lot of elves.

Now I am curious about the elf template. There was a brief elf template in the 3e core book for 40 points which did not include any age related advantage. I remember the Fantasy Folk elves (1st ed.) also costing 40 points and having unaging. I wonder what else was in that template to bring the cost down?

Edit: I'm sorry for the necromancy, I forgot I was looking in a different window where I was looking something up instead of the current discussion page.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

Dungeon Fantasy 3 says "They’re also long-lived, but this has no effect in dungeon fantasy – monsters with aging attacks always afflict victims in proportion to racial life expectancy. Thus, elf templates omit Unaging."

Which seems like a non sequitor since Unaging makes you immune to aging attacks in addition to altering the life expectancy.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

You forget Dungeon Fantasy, aslo strips most of the Social traits from the game so that Knights don't have to buy status either. The a lot of this DF says in not relevant to the genre. Ageing attack most are real just kill in if hit X number times attack, that X is the same regardless of the life span of the race, so we will not charge you for something that will have no effect. This includes if Unage races aren't immune to these attack either

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

This isn't any of these traits, this is being the subject of a rejuvenation treatment, something completely different and with no known point value.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

It does illustrate the principle that if an advantage provides no benefit not to charge for it. Monster Hunters also ignores unaging.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

Reverend Pee Kitty in his house rules calls them “flavor traits” and reduces their costs. There seems to be a general consensus that the RAW costs should only be used in a campaign where aging issues actually come up: foes with supernatural aging attacks, a mix of immortal and mortal PCs in a campaign with significant game-time passing. In campaigns where they won’t come up, they merit a 0-point feature.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

I do like the idea of them being a form of Unusual Background. At least partly because if I think about them that way I can actually gain a slightly-less-vague idea about what that trait is supposed to cost.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

No, I did not forget that. My point was tha Unaging makes you immune to aging attacks as well, which means that the justification in DF3 for why elves don't have it misses the point.

Which monsters have the kill if "hit X number times" attack you mentioned by the way?

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

In some settings, it may even qualify as a dangerous secret.
It reminds me of the plot of The Immortal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Im...1970_TV_series)

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

RPK only reduces Unaging to 5 points, makes Terminally Ill a quirk, and halves the other point costs. But, I see people in this thread saying advantages like Unaging didn't even give enough benefit in play to be a perk. I usually trust RPK's judgment so I wonder why he gives them higher values. Maybe he's treating Unaging, for example, as an Unusual Background that comes with the assumption the character is already quite old?

But on a racial template, it shouldn't necessarily come with that assumption. It seems to me that a 60-year-old Elf with racial Unaging shouldn't get an Unusual Background for it.

That does make me wonder, though. At what age should a character have an Unusual Background because of how much historical knowledge, skill levels, etc. they have compared to normal mortals? 200 years? 300? 500? 1000?

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

Never; they should spend points on advantages, attributes, or skills that reflect said learning.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

That can be said about everything that Unusual Background unlocks, though. It's always an advantage that gives literally nothing, except permission to purchase other advantages or skills that aren't otherwise available.

If Alice has magic skills, but Bob and Carol choose not to, Alice merely spends points on magic skills. But if nobody else is allowed to have magic skills, RAW says Alice should also pay 10 to 50 points for Unusual Background -- on top of paying for the magic itself.

So if being 1000 years old comes with permission to break skill and attribute caps, take Wildcard Skills, and supernatural or exotic advantages or magic powers off-limits to other PCs, by RAW that would apparently require an Unusual Background.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

Not entirely true, though. Unusual Background is one of the wildcard advantages for "there's no advantage for this", the same way Divine Curse is for disadvantages. And one of the things you usually get with Unusual Background is an assurance in the campaign that these things are less common, and NPCs won't be expecting them so much.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

If you are using Unaging to justify having skills that ordinary people don't or can't have, that much seems to be equivalent to Reawakened, which costs 10 points, and is defined as a specialized Unusual Background. Perhaps the 5-point difference is what Immunity to Aging is worth.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

Then there are of course the games which last a long enough in-game time to make those traits relevant. They can be very valuable there.

It generally makes sense to price advantages based on their utility in games which makes use of them. Players usually don't have to buy extended lifespan etc. if they don't think it will come up. There are plenty of other expensive traits that can be almost worthless. For example, combat traits are also massively overpriced in games which don't feature combat.

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

Just as a note, my very first GURPS campaign, using the original edition of GURPS Uplift, had only two combat scenes in a two-year campaign. One was ship to ship, and the other was restrained a Tymbrimi crew member who had gone into gheer. Of course, I've run campaigns since then where combat was a lot more frequent!

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#50): Extended Lifespan, Longevity, Unaging
 

I like some variants on Unaging, such as:

Unaging (Ennui) [1]
Whenever you would be required to make an aging check, you are instead forced into a state of Ennui for a period of 3 months (thus, after age 90, Ennui is permanent); if you have extended lifespan, modify the length of Ennui as well. While suffering from Ennui, you are listless and bored; assume Improvement through Study is unavailable, as is productive labor beyond what is required for normal survival and lifestyle. You may spend 1 character point to break out of Ennui for 1 month (in one month, spending 4 hours/day in a part-time job and 8 hours/day in self-study, you would expect to gain 0.75 character points).

For +1 point, you may deliberately enter or exit Ennui; this takes a day and a Will check. During a period of voluntary Ennui, you do not age. This has no effect on forced Ennui.

For +1 point, you may choose to forget a point in a skill or sacrifice a point of social advantages to break free of Ennui, instead of spending earned character points.