If this were Munchkin, this would be a neat cleric power boost!
 

Power Investiture “Add its level (maximum six) to all rolls required to use Holy abilities.”
Heroic Feats “Holiness doesn’t add to the rolls for bonus size or duration.”

Power Investiture still counts! Clerics can get 2d6+6 DX for 3d6+6 turns!!

No, they can’t.

Re: If this were Munchkin, this would be a neat cleric power boost!
 

Effect rolls are not rolls to use.

Re: If this were Munchkin, this would be a neat cleric power boost!
 

Adventurers, p. 20: "You may also buy the Holy abilities described for holy warriors (pp. 26-27); where those mention Holiness, use Power Investiture instead."

Adventurers, p. 26: "Holiness doesn't add to the rolls for bonus size or duration."

Re: If this were Munchkin, this would be a neat cleric power boost!
 

I know mate, i had the exact same thought: "Hey, those wasted two levels of Holiness finally do something!"

But alas, no.


(Note, they do do things, just not in my (limited) experience anything really useful, I mean helping to figure out if that treasure has Holy Power is nice... but the Cleric is so much better at it than my Holy Warrior).

Re: If this were Munchkin, this would be a neat cleric power boost!
 

The most useful things you can do with Holiness:

• Ask for divine intervention at IQ or skill + Holiness.
• Detect curses at Per + Holiness.
• Recognize Blessed items at Per + Holiness.
• Unlock access to Esoteric Medicine (and with it, the ability to stabilize mortal wounds without paying 10 FP for Stop Bleeding) and Exorcism (and with it, the ability to remove curses without paying 20 FP for Remove Curse).
• With Contingency Casting: Cast any clerical spell at IQ + Holiness.
• With Detect Evil/Good: Sense Evil/Good at Per + Holiness, and analyze it at IQ + Holiness.
• With Divine Guidance: Guess the right answer at a base equal to IQ + Holiness rather than just IQ as for Intuition (meaning you can absorb one bad option per Holiness level).
• With Divine Omens: Get free clues from the GM at Per + Holiness, and analyze them at IQ + Holiness.
• With Faith Healing: Heal pretty much anything at IQ + Holiness.
• With Turning: Send away undead with Will + Holiness.

It isn't as good as Power Investiture, mostly because it doesn't enable spellcasting, but at 1/4 the cost of IQ (and half that of Power Investiture), it's a cheap way to power up much of the stuff holy warriors are supposed to do when they aren't fighting.

I'd preface this next part with "obviously," but perhaps it isn't obvious: If your interest is in casting spells, play a cleric. If it's in fighting, and you see Holiness as a waste next to combat abilities, you'll probably see IQ, Will, and religious skills the same way . . . play a knight. The assumption for the holy warrior is that anyone choosing it wants to be a holy warrior and go around sensing Evil, dispelling curses, talking to the gods, turning undead, etc.

All of which said, if there's future support for the DFRPG, you can be sure the list of Holy abilities will grow, and with that, the utility of Holiness. And of course nothing prohibits a GM from letting Holiness add to rolls for Heroic Feats; I'd counsel adding it to the 3d for duration rather than the roll for the bonus.

Re: If this were Munchkin, this would be a neat cleric power boost!
 

**mumble grumble**

Most of my grousing comes from taking over a Character made by someone else with no Abilities that make use of Holiness... so it's only been the first four† things on that list...

But I'll have to remember that bit about Exorcism removing curses, that might just come in handy (but again, the Cleric will be so much better at it).


I have occasionally considered asking if I can trade one level in for another level of Higher Purpose (Slay Demons), as that's the character's real driving mission in adventuring (even if that only comes up about as often as Holiness has...).




† About divine intervention... aside from Clerics (with Clerical Investment) getting a Religious Ritual check [explicitly in DFRPG]... I can't find rules for this in the books?

Re: If this were Munchkin, this would be a neat cleric power boost!
 

See "Praying" under Last Ditch (Exploits, p. 90). In "Altars and Shrines," note that you need Clerical Investment only to sanctify an altar or shrine. Once that's done, the ritual leader just needs Religious Ritual . . . and while the leader will normally be a cleric, Holiness gives the same bonus as Power Investiture. You need an altar or shrine only for group prayer, though.

Re: If this were Munchkin, this would be a neat cleric power boost!
 

Ah, I took "..the cleric.." in "With a proper shrine, the cleric can then lead the party in a prayer for aid" a little to strongly!

Thanks!


(This will probably come in handy if the party Cleric ever goes down... might have to pick up a Portable Shrine... and invest a few more points into Religious Ritual...)